We are doing another session on microenterprise because so many people are interested and we have with us one of the pioneers in microcredit from the Gamine Bank. Microenterprise is probably best defined by what it isn't. You don't go to somebody and ask them for a job. You create your own job. It's income generation that is reliant on your own resources. You either become self-employed or you pull together a group of people and you create a collective and work together. The two things that are necessary for income generation is access to credit and technology. You have to have credit to have both. In order to get credit normally from a financial institution, you have to have collateral. Well, most poor people don't have collateral and the problem is then getting someone to lend you money. A couple of organizations came up with the idea of microcredit. Action, in Latin American and the Gamine Bank in Bangladesh. The Gamine Bank has become synonymous with microcredit and we have somebody with us here, Depal Baroa, who really worked with the founder of the Gamine Bank from its very inception and has now started a company that is taking the microcredit model and applying it o the energy sector. Energy is essential in any kind of development. It's also essential in any business. And so, having access to cheap energy is crucial if you want to be able to make money. The Gamine Bank has recognized this and especially in rural areas where people don't have access to energy. they are trying to lend them money so that they can buy themselves solar panels, or lease solar panels. Let me pass you to Depal Baroa who will tell you a little bit about the mechanics of microcredit, then David Kittlesohn from the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association is going to give you some examples of microenterprise on the ground in latin America and then a we heard talking to you, there are lots of gender issues that have to do with energy, with credit. Dr. Barbara Farhart, from our National Renewable Energy Laboratory, has been looking at gender issues especially as they relate to energy and she is going to tell you a little bit about the work that she trying to do and let me tell you, that trying to get people in energy to be cognizant of general issues is not a simple task. And she deserves a great deal of appreciation for the work that she's trying to do. So, Depal Baroa, from the Gamine Bank, will talk to you about Microcredit.

[Note: Blank spaces are put in for language that was incomprehensible] Good morning to everybody. Titati Despanti had a session on common energy, they explain about the common energy and also microcredit experience. This session, microenterprise opportunities, still we can talk about the _______________how we can link up with microcredit and the financing ___________energy _____________ and Dr. Markorow already mentioned about that. There are almost ________________Bangladesh there is no city ________________________ so the convention ________________. So, let me explain Foster Gamine Bank approach, and then we'll talk about the reasonable energy. The question is, I have transparencies and some slides so that you can understand the _________ of Bangladesh and the activities of Gamine Bank. So, we have other two persons so we can discuss later after presentation.

Bangladesh is a small country, in size wise, area wise, 54,000 thousand square miles only. 120,000,000 people living in Bangladesh. In 1971 we leave ______ from Pakistan as an independent country. So at that situation and also the present situation. About the women, I'd like to mention about the women. In Bangladesh, Islamic dominating society, and women are not really in a _________situation. Women are insecure in the society, even the divorce rate is higher in Bangladesh in comparison to other countries because if you have a look in the study stats, that you'll find that there is a divorce rate also, and the social outlook to the women is also not fair enough, because people taught that the women only in the home, and they're child bearing only, not for any income generation or for any sort of decision making person in the family. In our situation, if there is a disaster, cyclone or a familiar like situation, women continue until death of her children in the family, but sometime men leave the family to go elsewhere for higher income and he marry other women in that part of country, or the women continue with the children. So, really, in Baorti situation, women are much more _____________ other than men. So, if you see the our tree, and all this, women have now become a lack of vision, and lack of opportunity they become a lack of vision. And they are taught this is their fate. So, this is the situation of Bangladesh. In 1976, Persidy News initiated a program because in our country there are so many nationalized commercial bank, and because of that, but they don't extend credit to the poor people, because they need collateral, they need security, mortgage back. Gamine Bank initiated in 1976, we don't demand any collateral because people don't have any capacity for collateral, very poor people, poorest of the poor. Gamine then built this bank and we are really, and you know, our situation, the way it is implemented is a very, very big problem. So we go for a self-employment. The main objective of the bank, extending banking facilities to the very poor men and women in Bangladesh, and the elimination of the money lenders. In Bangladesh in formal sectors, if you get money from the money lender, 10% by the month on an average, so it's 120% per month interest they have to pay. So this is also an exploitation of money lender. And they are _____ unemployed resources, 120,000,000 living in Bangladesh, 54,000 square miles only. So, you see, there are so many unemployed people and they become a human resources in they can't resources. And if we make ____________ into a center, 5 women can form a group, 5 men can form a group, there's social group, 5 people or 5 women can form a group and that's the way extending loan to the poor women. There's is an economist there, old ______________, if you don't have money, you have no savings, you are in the same circle. But if you put some money as an investment, then that allows you _______________ a then you have some saving so that you have more income. In 1976, it started as a ________ program in _______ one village where I born and brought up. And the village got me to start it, and gradually it become project, coming back project. And the center bank people and other commercial bank people, oh, it's so good because of student and professor can make it happen, but in reality, it can be applied now that second village. But we already in 1979, it extended to other districts, and it become a Gamine Bank project, and then government again asking us, oh, it can's be _________ good, it's very hard on you people. So hard working, hard working is rather dirty word, ________ than a blame so that in 1983 it become independent bank, 60% shared by the government and 40% by the members. But eventually, now, 90% shares by the borrowers, members, and 10% of the government. The main focus of credit delivery system of Gamine exclusive focus on bottom poor especially women because I mention there if they're poor men and poor women, but poor women much more a victim of Bovardi, and the main mission of the bank to alleviate Bovardi from the lives of the poor people of Bangladesh, so the bottom poor can borrow ______________ into small homeowners group. Same age, same educational background, same economic situation, so that they can understand each other. If you say 50 years one women cannot find group with 25 years. Because there is an age gap so that they can find 25-30, they reach each other easily, they should not dominate each other. So the home__________ group, even social economy _____ also, loan conditions are especially suitable for Bovardi because our people, they don't know how to write their names. So we trained them how to write their names. They only know as a picture how to write their names, but people are so ___________in Bangladesh; there's around 35% literacy but in the rural areas, especially in the women, it's much more lower than the Albanian. And we ___________ social ___________ program, not only the credit program but also we are discussing of the ______________. Because dolli is a social disease. If you have dorgan, you cannot marry up because of _______________________. So ____________is also important and we asking for clean water, drinking water and also vegetable cultivation and also educating their children. So all this __________, there are 16 divisions doubled up by members so that they can really not only credit, they can go for the other social aspect of the life. We double up couple of management system, and we're going to discussing later on about this issue. And _________________ we double up according to ______________- for income generation, then we go for a housing, a shelter loan, and a _________ loan, and seasonal loan, and education loan, we started recently, education loan for their children, because there are so many children are going and are very good student and they have good resolve in the colleges and school. We give them a loan for higher education to become a medical doctor, to become an engineer, to become a professor or a lecturer or something so that they can get an education loan from the bank. Because if you see in one instance, that gradually go and the housing for the poor is also a battle investment in our situation. But for the building in the city it is very expensive and our people live in a very ____________ situation. They don't have any house to sleep, even to protect their children. So housing is one of the basic requirements for a person to organize _________ discipline for action. If you don't have a roof in your head, you cannot think of tomorrow. And the shelter is not unproductive for the poor, because shelter, that they can put out to their children for education from the ___________. And also, they can really work in the house. A house is not only living or sleeping place, it's also a hect. We think a housing is very important because when providing housing loan, we also giving loan for lend. And the lend title in the name of women, sure, so the whole land and the houses in the name of women. If you said, divorce, divorce, divorce in our culture. Three time you pronounce divorce as agreed a all, legally not accepted, so if you said divorce, divorce, divorce, the woman has to continue because she is the woman of the house and man has to leave the situation. And if you see the women's participation and economy opportunities, there are much more participation. We have no 2.3 million members and if you multiply by 5, more than 11 million are involved with the Gamine Bank. We have 1,100 branches throughout the country, and 40,000 villas working, and 13,000 stopped. So this is the ___________. And that way if you see all our experience for the last 22 years, women's participation situation is far from the deserving. In our case, 19% economy. If you see the 5% men, women perform much more better. And in __________, when they get loan, they divide the loan, offer income, __________, clothes for the children, books for the children, and sometimes they buy clothes for the husband, so that income wise and _________wise, and position wise, much more rewarding, and the women much more better than the male counterparts. And one of the important members at the board of directors, because of the ownership of the bank, they buy 2.5 dollars to buy a share. Now, they are 90% owner of the bank, so that as a shareholder, they become a member of board of directors. Top policy-making board. 13 members out of 39 from them women. so they are elected by the women participating members. So all our women really in the board and there is a chairman from the government so there is a better dialogue, meaningful dialogue in the board meeting so they can decide about the bank. So they are not only the customer, not only the beneficiary, they are the owner of the bank, and they are also in the decision making process. And 95% now is 95% of women now in our bank. So if you go through the women, it's much more rewarding. We have different kinds of income activities, but we experience after 5-10 years people are getting a loan for a very, very bigger investment also, if you see, some of the items, leasing item, we provide a loan, as a leasing hire process. Within 2 years they become the owner of the asset, owner of the equipment, owner of the big investment, you see there are cow, buffalo, ____ dealer, ____dealer, _________________, rice mill, buffalo cort, poultry farm, ________ cart, _______ and temple, ___________, _________. So there are so many items that are getting equipment loan and that can be a really, in this day, entrepreneurability in the long run. So they become much more economically, financially solvent and they can really cause the Bovardi life. And unless it's ______________________ one person, we are _____________ more than 2 billion U.S. dollar from the inception of the bank, now already we recover about 2 billion. So, we have very good recovery date, and if you see the_____________ of the __________, __________________ forestry, and processing and manufacturing. So you see, the conferencing women in agriculture, and we have a dominating ________ in forestry and live ______ fisheries. So if you bought combine, it's really, it's a much more important in the __________________.

I'd like to share the management side and the system, the fast to have 5 people can form group and they can select their partners. So there is a process of how you take in decision making process. The bank is not dictating who will be a member. They are selecting their own partner. Bank only giving training, rules and regulations. And center, 5 or 6 or even 8 groups can form a center. So, ________________ in the __________ office and head of this. If you multiply by 5 members you will get the 2.3 million members. So that they cycling the circle. Every circle is independent and they can get advice from the bigger circle. So this is not a very bureaucratic process, rather than a participatory decision making process. Everybody can take part in the decision making process. So this is a traditional process. I'm not in management background, I am from the economist, and dealing with the poor women, I am merely an employee of women's bank and now I've become gradually a ________________. Not that there are no more poor, it's a common bank becoming past poor's bank now, it's a women's bank. If you see the top of the ________, normally in all decision making process, at the top of the _______, all information is constantly ____________, and on the way, it's some system lost, and when decision goes to the fill, it takes time. So there again, you have system loss. So, but in our situation, within the broad framework, everybody can walk in a situation like this. So this is about management establishment, this is not about management ___________, I mentioned this traditional one. People sitting in that way, I can show you some transparencies like, so you understand. This is a center meeting, and center manager sit here, and the every group, ___________ and group secretary. So that's the sitting arrangement so people can see each other easily and then interact eery week. We have weekly meeting. So this is also interesting because women born in the village and grew up in the same village and died in the village, they never look in the second village, or talk village, even in the marketplace. Now, they have a chance to meet each other every week, they can interact. In your situation, it is different, but in our situation, it really is quite ups and down, that situation is there. So, this is the way that their social interaction, you know, a center meeting. We are blame ourselves the last 22 years we are doing are own activities and inter______ activities and everything, but we are blaming ourselves for the, we're evaluating ourselves. Our main mission to eliminate Bovardi from the lives of the poor people, so that if you see. What is the Bovardi definition? The poorest or the poor, sick person, poorest people of the _________________particular country, but in calory wise, the 2,200 calory ______ that you cross the Bovardi line, otherwise you blew the Bovardi line. So in our situation, it is very top to visit the Bovardi line in that way or a calory intake situation. So we double up our own criteria. Own definition, how really to cross the Bovardi line. We have a den indicator. With den indicators, we have learned ourselves, each and every board member is evaluated in the month of January, so they work on, one workout, one bank worker dealing with the full 100 women, so they can visit their houses and talk to them and they have a child whether they're ____ 10 points or not. Within 10 points, number 1 point, they should have their own house because they live in a very small house, they cannot really in the winter and monsoon, they cannot sleep there, so they should have their house. And the house should be at least $600. And there's central electricity and they can sleep and they have a sleeping car and a ____________ so that they have a one point. No. 2 points. Water. Two, it is very important drinking water. Nowadays, we have another problem coming up. ____________ is coming up in some area so we have a ______ operation, __________company from USA and _______________ and barn family center, so that we can do something on purification of water so that help also. So we have table is a must, so that if you drink table water, then you feel from dizzy. Because in Bangladesh, most of the ____________ water bondage. So if drinking water, is one of the criteria you have to _______. We provide long for tubal, or also you can buy from your own savings income. So, water is no. 2. And no. 3 is, all the children of the family should go to school. After 6 years, they should go to school. Then, its also, education is very important. And no. 4. Those who have at least 300 takas, that means around $7-8 dollars income, from out of their income ______________. So this is entrepreneurability that you are paying money from your own income, not from any of these investment or selling any ______ or anything, so this is also entrepreneurability. This is also one indicators. All the family members should use ________________. We're providing housing long, with a ____________________a slab, but they can also install center __________. So this is also another important point we are evaluating every year from all each and every _______. Another point is that family members ____________ for daily use. This year we have a serious cold in January and many people died of cold because it unexpected cold. And also, summer, we're now preparing a quilt, local quilt, only 200 taka, it's very small amount around $5 dollars, so that we are supplying to them, and they can afford it and they can save their life. So, we also prefer every family should have sufficient clothes for winter and summer, all season. No. 7. This is a small country, very far, but if you put anything will grow, so it is very green in that sense. So the vegetable cultivation around the home state, we are _______ and they can eat and they can sell us.

No. 8. They are not willingly defaulted because if you a members for 10 years, 8 years, you are not willing to default it because you have a capacity to repay the loan. So this is also one criteria which we have. Has the ability to feed the family members, ____________, poor situation or Bovardi situation, people take one or two meal, escape one meal, but we prefer 3 meals, breakfast, lunch and dinner they should have. So if you have around the year 3 square meals, you achieve another point.

No.10. All the family member have sufficient savings so that they can go for consult the doctor and have a medicine, have a treatment, otherwise if they can't consult the doctor, sometimes they die of a small disease or something. So this is also one point. If this standpoint achieved by a family, then we can say, they crossed the Bovardi line, in our own definition. If people are not cross the line, which point is really lagging behind. We can have a positive intervention on that point and others are blaming ourselves because we are working with them so we should ________ ourself whether their __ Bovardi or not. And one interesting recently we have an election, local common election. Our members also participated. And they got an interesting position. 5% of the total Bangladesh sit, 5% coming board was elected by board. So now they're not only as a small borrower, a small member, they become a part of the local government. And gradually, they become more powerful than they ever. So this is the results of the elected member.

So, I'd like to explain, in 1983 becoming dependent bank. We are double upping other company so that Dr. Mahlkari ________________ another section company so can address the whole issue in a holistic way, also. Coming back is for perfect company, and ____________________ for internet in the city area, we're trying to connecting the rural areas and so that we can internet also. And coming, phone, this is a cellular, mobile phone, we double up, this way they're _________________________, we double up our company, a small _______ ______________________. It's a cellular mobile phone. Not only in the city area, we are trying to extent to the rural, urban area. So that common bank member, getting a loan from the bank, and they buy a mobile, cellular set, and they have income, because many people living outside of Bangladesh immediately in USA or any European country so that relatives can talk over the phone and they can get an income. Normally, for one minute, 4 taka, $.10. But for the _____ ____________________ and they are getting 2 taka, that $.05 per minute and they have income, $.01. So they get a $.05 income and out of that they are paying the installment of the bank loan and at the same time they become the owner of the mobile set. I can show you one and what it's like. So this is the __________ company, but we double up as a non-profit company, there really addressing the common class is helping the technical assistance providing to different double-up in countries. Around 56 countries now replicating becoming very modern. But already 25 countries they are getting loan and technical assistance from Gamine Trust who double-up a trust so that they can get technical assistance and finding a small funding because if you are small and new, people are going to believe you because Gamine Trust believe in the capacity, some interesting, person who is really, can do some things, _________ so that Gamine Trust is helping toward the welfare and education of the Gamine. And there are the Kadesa Foundation, Gamine would ____ this is a Gamine check, we're doubling-upping, their selling in European and American markets. It's a very, very soft ________ handwoven, and environment friendly and it's very good for health also, and we double-upping it other company, __________________________, mostly responsible for this and I spoke about that, and this is a solar and wind and bio digestible ____________ in Bangladesh, you see, 85% people are not willing to fight. So there is ____________ for the noble energy. Recently, there is another company is double-upped in even U.S. based in Boston, she traveled from Gamine Foundation USA, they are supporting Gamine philosophy, Gamine policies, at the same time they are helping the application of Gamine Bank protecting Mexico and other countries around this part of the world. So there is an interesting movement that's going on and Microcredit Summit last year held in Washington, D.C. and this year we have a follow-up meeting in New York last week. A very interesting 1,200 people participated and there is _______________ the action plan, for a total 100, even 20,000 around have an action plan for _____________ and target a 100,000,000 poor families. At least, 100,000,000 poor families to women by 2005. There is a target is there and now, there is a countdown. The paper is published from the Microcredit Summit Campaign Committee in Washington, D.C. Countdown how many people you will achieve. So there is a process every year there is a follow-up. We double up the company. Every time we have something in mind, the poor people, rural poor people, so how even in ________, a cellular company, cellular phone, how can help the poor. This is also, every time we see anything that can enlarge the business and at the same time, we can think about the poor people how really they can benefit out of that. So that all the companies you see are really people in the middle center and all the companies around and helping, even different external _________. You see, _____________in part, _________ and __________from USA and this other partner also. So there are different partners is participating recently who we are already this session is coming up already, the _____________ and Barn Friendly Center for Nutrition and ____- Seed and Water Purification. Another company Gamine, Seaman's Technical Center in Taka so that we can held the people how can technically they can double-up and even for higher, bigger investment they can get a training, some sort of a knowledge of that center at _________, So the poor people in our mind how they can change their life. And I have some slides so that we can easily understand about the Bangladesh situation. This is the women sitting in the center. Every week we had a center meeting. And they're sitting and they have a passbooks, they pay money and they also savings, save with their savings, two taka. There's a people who had a business trading, peddling bangles, you know in our part of the country, women wear bangles, so the cost _______ peddling door to door. This is a molasses, that buying and selling in the market. The people are constructing the _____ villa for a housing that need a four symmetry, four corner because we have all _____________. Concrete ____ filler is very important and women constructing the villa and they sell it to the people also. This is also rope, they are making rope out of the coconut. This is a food preservation you see, women in ________________. The woman is really interesting and it's a tomato they're preserving for 6 months in their home. You can look at that in a very indigenous way. It's not changing a test, it's just in the top of the groove of the house, the preserve tomatoes. So this is what they are preparing for the materials for the weaving machine. So these people have a pumpkin like this for producing vegetables, have a loan, they are also in business, trading. So this house some sort of vegetables and. So this is Abetta Lagaran. She's very happy she had double-up a vegetable garden, having a loan from the bank. So these are the also vegetables. So this is a dock. A swing, a very decorated, they can sell in the market. Vegetable garden, then. So that women come and check to see, there are so many design. We have 2,000 designs. The poor women really understand quickly if you see someone and then essentially they make a new design. So this is a mobile phone, in the _________ country, Bangladesh, so people are using mobile cellular phone, even in the river they can talk to each other. So this is a fishing net. They're walking and they're taking care of their small children also. So this is also, women are also using the meshing to make a bottom. So this is women using mobile phone. This is also in coming generation. At the same time, they are dealing with the technology. Normally, rich people or business people using phone, but our poor women also now using mobile phone. This is also symbol of employment, at the same time income. That's the road making. This also _____________________. This is a solar light they're using for extension of water power and then have more income. Cow is very important as resources for the poor people and this also for cultivating land at the same time. Beef is also better use of the cow. And this is of the ducks and the farm. So the people are signing in the meeting so they practice every week because they have to attend the meeting and then sign i and they remember their signature and this is an aspiring lot o change their mind to educate their children. We start an education loan for their children so their making bangles, so their a place in the meeting. __________________ and walked is our motto. So this is a poultry. It is enormous now and this _________ coming in Bangladesh. Poultry, So, this is also the making pottery. Pottery products. This is a rice cellar, women now handling with the rice cellar. This is a swing. There embroidery in the saris, you know saris, women wear saris in our park so they embroidering decoration saris. So this is a weaving _____ their completing. Saris and clothes come in checked. They have a decoration quilt and this is what we call a noxicata. This is a very interesting quilt, this is very expensive and decorative in their home and selling them in the urban market. So this a garden, ________ garden, having a loan for _______ garden. This is a part of __________, This is also Webe. This is also garden, they're selling the plant also. Rose garden. This is also a fishing net. Poultry bars. Weaving. So this is a fish, we have a fish farm. we're giving money for fishing and they also very much even in a group or 2 groups, fish cultivation in the farm. So this is a joint venture in that area. So, this is a shop, grocery shop, women trading and grocery shop. Cow, poultry. So, this is in_________, you see a house, cow, goat, duck and chicken, it is really, because all this soft economic base that can help the poor people to survive in the real Bangladesh. This is essence for the poor but they don't have any land or anything, so they're working in the field, it's all poultry production. Drinking water and they're about to drink, casaba in the table water, so this is also hygienic. They're going to start the house from the loan from the bank and also they have a poultry bar. So the house is also a source of income and inspiration for the future. This also, fishing. People engaged in the _______________. So, this is a solar lighting _________ place they're working under the light. This is also a romely place. This is a ___________________. Mat making. They are making mats. People sleep in the mat. Yes, the shoe. They are making shoe. These are people peddling and they are counting money and they're now confident to count the money. So this is a vegetable cart again. This is__________. These are beads. Goat and sheep. Goat is a poor people's cow. Every 6 months they have a 2 cow and every 4 calfs from the goat. So this is also Bettelengaren inside, it's a very big _________. These are bitter leaf people, use bitter leaf after food, that takes some sort of.... this is good income, beads, again, the poultry, eggs and poultry, so they're counting money having money from the bank every week they're getting money from the bank, so they are really raising cow. Cow is a good income. Every __________ they are just slaughtering cow, is a sacrifice cow, so it's a good income every year. So the people are happy now, you see, the Gamine sign, and the structure house, and now they are happy the children are living in the __________, the outside in Flores Baca, they does have a good house also and people are happy to educate their children. So the women have a place, unity, discipline, is work is our motto. And Bangladesh, family members. So this is also a Doris Medis. This is a Doris Medis. Every time people demand for Doris, so we encourage Doris Medis, and people attending from Doris Medis so this inspiring, this is a meris __________ so we don't Doris, we are encouraging people for Doris Medis. This is also income generation. This solar panel if you see people have some sort of light and income for extension of the work. Upside down city. This is also a sitting machine and a solar light, they have an extension of our ___________. Finish. So thank you very much. If you have any question, I would like to _______________.

Let me bring you the microphone. I would appreciate it if you would tell people who you are, where you come from and a little bit why you might be interested in microenterprises, do you want to start something like this in your own country? Are you here just our of curiosity? What kinds of needs do you have and particular experiences that you might relate to the group that you might have that relate to microcredit or microenterprise.

I'm Jenny Warden, I come from Lowden County, Virginia which is about 50 miles west of here, and I'm interested in microenterprise to the extent that in the U.S. there's in some places an evolution away from commodity farming back into smaller enterprises, value added products and direct relationships between producer and consumer. So that's the kind of model I'm looking at. But I'm interested in to the extent this is a relevant question, 'cause I know that this is different from a conventional bank loan, but what is the so-called default rate in your loans, and if you know the difference between men and women on the default rate, I'd be interested in that.

[Answer inaudible]

My name is Miriam Kunika. I come from Zambia. Zambia is classified as one of the poorest countries of the world as well and I'm dealing with groups of farmers. They are not all women but they like to push on our women who are also very poor. I'm very interested in the Gamine Bank Program. What I want to know is what are the possibilities of such a bank being introduced into Zambia.

[Answer inaudible]

My name's Pam Fillian and I'm a very small farmer from northern Maine and my concern for anybody farming is marketing. And I see from your slides there that many of your recipients are, they're diversifying what they do but who buys their products? Does the dollar just circulate around the village or the area that they're in or does your bank assist them in overseas marketing or out of area marketing?

[Answer inaudible]

My name is Cara Theofile. I'm with the health sector or the forestry sector where these people are trying to build in conditionalities through your loan process. For example, have public health people come to you and said, can you make the loan conditional upon improved health practices. And I know you've done a little bit with boiling water and housing and stuff, but I imagine the success of Gamine Bank has attracted a lot of people trying to push their agenda upon your loan processing. Have you done that, is it a problem? What's your experience with that?

[Answer inaudible]

I am Nodia Costa from Mexico. I want to ask you a few questions. Primaro, la quota for socio, para seis socio del Gamine Bank. First, how much does it cost to become a member of your bank? Second, [in Spanish]? The interest rates for the loans, could you tell me what that is? Tres, [in Spanish]? Third, I'd like to know if the Gamine Bank is able to sustain itself, if it's in the black or in the red, so to speak and if it receives any sort of external funds to keep it going? Numero desosios, how many members are in Gamine Bank? And if you associate safe with microfinances. Associan in la oro, [in Spanish]? Do you have some kind of requirement that they save a certain portion of the money? Do they also have savings accounts? Do you have a method of assessing how much money they're allowed to have to save?

[Question in Spanish] We found that in microcredit situations it is very important to facilitate a savings for women and property and credit.

Thank you, Mateo _______________. I was in Mexico, [Answer inaudible]

Hi, I'm Ella Ennis, and I'm with the National Rural Development Partnership which is a part of, it's an intergovernmental organization but it's funded mostly by USDA, 2/3 by USDA. I would like to know, my question is, the products that are produced by the women in the microenterprises or women and men in microenterprises, is there any way for us in the this country or in any country buying a product to know that the producer has gotten a fair price or a fair wage for their work and is there any kind of certification programs, so that when we go to the store and we buy a product that's made in Bangladesh, that we know that the person received a fair price for their efforts and their labor and their work? Is there anything that we can do about that?

I wonder if we might just stop the questions for a second so as to have Mr. David Kettlesohn do a brief presentation and then we can resume questions afterwards. Is that all right with you David? We will come back to some questions afterwards.

Let me wax a little philosophical first. A rushing stream, 15 rows, and 125 opportunities. A rushing stream, 15 rows, and 125 opportunities. When you think about poverty, you can compare it with a rushing stream. So of you have stood beside rushing mountain streams and you have seen the things that they can drag with the force of the water that's just gushing down the mountain side. People all over the world are caught up in that poverty and you have to decide what your contribution is going to be. You can stand up where you are at the present and say, my response will be to try to pull as many people out of that rushing stream as possible. Or you can say, someplace, somehow, these people have gotten in the stream and I'm going to try to understand why, how, where and when. And you begin going upstream to discover the reasons. And you start finding out that some people fall in, some people maybe jump in , some people are pushed in, and you begin to do efforts upstream to keep them from getting in. 15 rows. In Bolivia, as in some of the other countries represented here this afternoon or this morning, rather, what you have is agriculture land, handed down from generation to generation, in the case of the Mamani family, the parents had 30 rows. They had 2 surviving children, a daughter and a son. The daughter and the son each got 15 rows. You can't do much with 15 rows, a tiny little plot. The son has 4 surviving children, that'll mean less then 4 rows apiece. Obviously, you have to look for other opportunities,. Each of you sitting here, in some way, generate income for yourselves and for your families. What opportunities have you participate in, what opportunities have you seen? I'll take only a few minutes to talk about what the National Ruralectic Cooperative Association has done around the world and mainly in Latin America, But as you saw on the flyer that was distributed at breakfast, the idea is to make this an interactive discussion, as has already been the case with Depaul. So, from the experience that you have, many of you have stayed out of that rushing stream, helped others to get out of that rushing stream and the question is what have you found to be the most effective. From your experience, be prepared then to be able to tell the rest of us that are present, what has worked. The National Rural Electric Cooperative Association was founded more than 50 years ago, and it's been more than 30 years that we've worked internationally in over 60 countries. In Bangladesh, for example, the Gamine Bank has emphasized credit. The NRECA has been there for over 20 years working with energy, getting electricity out to remote areas. In those 20 years, we have managed, co-managed really, with the REC, the Rural Electrification Board of Bangladesh over 1 billion dollars worth of electrification. You saw slides where there was electric equipment being used, and a part of what we do is emphasize the energy aspects, so that those microenterprise will be able to work more efficiently, more productively, more profitably. The 125 opportunities I mentioned happened to be specifically the number of opportunities that we identified up to a certain point in Bolivia. Within the NRECA, we called them productive uses and when you think about microenterprise, each of you walked into this room with some idea. In some ways, it's like saying, dog. And immediately, I'm sure what came to your mind was a doberman, right? Well, no, maybe a chihuahua, maybe a german shepherd, maybe a cocker spaniel. When you say microenterprise, what comes to your mind? Some of you walked in maybe thinking about Australia. Some of you walked in thinking about Africa. Others about Asia. Others about the USA. Microenterprise has so many different labels and so many different sizes that it's difficult sometimes to be able to string together the threads that make it something common for all of us. But when you consider agriculture, you consider women in agriculture, agriculture is a business. Sometimes its micro, sometimes its macro. And you have had your experiences in one way or another and it will be important to get that feedback from you.

To give you a little bit more background in some specifics in Bolivia. As we have worked there, for the last 7 years, we have been managing over 25,000,000 of rural electrification in Bolivia using all kinds to technologies and promoting the use of electricity in the use of microenterprises. In one specific case, there's an organization that has modeled itself after the Gamine Bank and similar experiences called Brothan, which went on to become even a larger bank, Banko Sol. The Gamine Bank, at one point in history, Brothan, at one point in history, gave its first loan. You're seated here, maybe representing a country where there is not a program like this, but you have to take the first step. You can become active in helping found organizations that give that first loan. And now the Gamine Bank has 2.3 million members. Brothan and Banko Sol have together given nearly 100,000 loans. Of those loans, 63% are to women. The smallest loan, according to Pancho Tero, was only $17. What he told me as obviously you can't do many loans of that size and expect to be able to cover all your operating costs. Annual interest rates are from 36 to 48% but what you have to do is compare that to the loan sharks who are sometimes 10 times that. So what happens is that Brothan and Banko Sol have become profitable and I would say in terms of Bolivia, very profitable. And I applaud that because being profitable let's you continue to survive and to help many more poor. So we've talked about the rushing stream, the 15 rows that shows the poverty that many people around the world are up against, 125 opportunities happens to be the number of productive uses that we discovered in Bolivia. But you are here representing other opportunities and with this, I will close so that the interactive discussion can continue and you can enrich it with your experience, your needs and your treasure of what you have already been out in the field doing.

We're going to do a real quick segment here and have Dr. Barbara Farhar talk a little bit about some of the gender issues. We heard from the women in the various other groups saying, women have a particular problem because they can't get credit because they don't own land, they don't own cattle. This is specific to women. There is something called gender analysis which is attempting to take into consideration these very particular problems that women face in economic activity and Dr. Farhar will briefly mention some of those.

Hi, I'm pleasantly surprised to be here. Dr. Caravatti asked me to say a work to you today. She told me about this yesterday, so I just wanted though, to give you a work on gender and renewable energy. I noticed when I looked at the agenda for the women in agriculture meeting her and I was delighted to come, that the work energy didn't appear anywhere. And I think energy is critical to women and to their sustainable development and particular opportunities and I thought about this for a number of years. I work at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colorado, but I was based here in Washington for about 5 years, and I worked closely with the U.S. Department of Energy and I've been talking about the connection between gender and renewable energy for several years, and wanted to announce that we are just getting a little funding to do a joint exploration of the connection between gender and renewable energy between the U.S. Department of Energy and the National Renewable Energy Laboratory. The laboratory works hard on technology, but doesn't work as hard on people. And so what I'm attempting to do is get a link going between all of the experts in agriculture forestry and development and microcredit to have some technical assistance and good input on the energy side so that they can have the kind of expertise they need to do appropriate and technically good installations and applications of renewable energy. Just a work about some background on this. I went to a meeting in Senecal in 1994 on Women in Global Energy Policy where it was highlighted. It was a workshop, an international workshop, and it was highlighted that women do not have a voice in energy decision making around the world although they produce a lot of the energy in this world and they use most of it in the developing world. They're the ones actually doing it. I attended the Caribbean energy conference in 1995 and we talked there about this issue and women were so excited that they formed the Caribbean Women's Energy Network. So, we know that there's a lot of interest on this topic. And women would like to network about it. In Denver, in 1996, the World Renewable Energy Congress met with about 1,000 people and many countries, 70 countries represented, and we had a symposium on women in sustainable energy. The symposium will be held again the Work Renewable Energy Congress in Florence in September this year and it will give another opportunity for women to voice their concerns around energy and how it can play a special role in development around the world. And one last thing I want you to be aware of, is that there is a group called Energia, which is a women's network around energy issues and it was started by women at the University of Twenta in the Netherlands and they're working on getting a website going so that women can interact around energy issues. I'd be happy to answer any questions and thanks for the opportunity just to give you this brief update.

Any takers, any questions, any further sharing of experience?

My name is Petu Getsi and I work for the Punt Dynamics Agriculture Cooperative Research Support Program. You can tell we are government funded. The goal of our program is to develop and research Agriculture fish farming technologies for some systems and small farmers, mainly living out of the countries, and we work with stilafia. and I have a question for the gentlemen from the Gamine Bank and what I would like to know is, does the bank insure when it gives loans that the loanee has technical expertise or access to technical expertise for the little endeavor that they're engaging in?

[Answer inaudible]

Hello. My name is Ellen Lazar. I thought I would introduce myself to all of your here today. I'm the Director of the Community Development Financial Institutions Fund which is a wholly owned government corporation within the Treasury Department of the United States. We provide funding to community development financial institutions which are community banks, community loan funds, social venture capital funds, community development credit unions and most importantly, for this group, for microcredit facilities and loan funds. We received appropriations from Congress, we provide loans, grants, equity investments to microcredit entities around the United States. We work in inner city communities and rural communities and native American communities and our hope is to help to grow these institutions so that they can better serve their communities and bring people up and out of poverty. If you'd like to know more about the fund, I'm here. So, I wanted to say hello.

Thank you very much, I think that for Americans, that would be very, very useful. The Gamine Foundation is actually going to be replicating the model here in the United States and there is a great deal of interest in trying to do something, in empowerment zones and enterprise communities throughout the U.S. and make connections.

My name is Andameka Zumaker and I'm from the Netherlands although presently I'm working in Ecuador and I'd just like to outline a few experiences in the area. We work in Ecuador in credit to see if maybe people had similar experiences, good and bad experiences. There is a very low credit availability actually in the province, in the south where we live and work. There is a few local NGOs and farmers groups who provide credit, but it's mainly given to men. So, one women farmer union, they started giving credit to women, focusing on women. And what happened was the men sent their wives to get the credit and they got the money, and then the men got all drunk and spent the money on gambling, so it was worse than before, because now the women didn't have a loan, but he had a debt. But there are also a few good experiences that some organizations really were targeting women and they found out that they had other interests for credit so they opened up a line of a credit not linked to any particular activity, so open credit. So a lot of women took it to as a so-called consumer credit, that said they wouldn't have to sell their crops right after harvest but they could store it longer because now they had money to spend on school uniforms and books and even on a grain silo to keep the grains for longer periods so that prices would rise and they could sell it off with profit. But in general, there is very low or very little credit facilities and our project, for example, is promoting grain silos to store grains and a lot of farmers can't even buy those although the cost is low because there are simply no credit facilities. So, we'd be interested also to see what can be done in that area to link up with others.

One of the issues that she raised there, something that other banks normally try to avoid by screening, you make sure that you get customers that are likely to be able to repay you, not just because they have collateral, but because they're carefully screened in the application. In the experience of microcredit, what kind of screening mechanism do you have at the Gamine Bank?