Women in Agriculture 

Tape #332 - Food Safety

...yet our United States Department of Agriculture, and it’s really my pleasure to be able to moderate this session, and I hope to illicite some interesting discussion from all of here about this very important issue of food safety.  I thought that by way of introduction to this session, that I might make a few comments about an organization called the Kodaks Allimintaris Commission.  I think it’s important for all of us that are interested in food safety to have an appreciation for the organization that is really the international standards setting body for food safety.  So, I thought I might just spend a minute or two briefly describing for your the Kodaks Alminiaris what it’s roles and responsibilities are and that would provide kind of an umbrella for our discussion.  The presenters in our session today are all people who I have heard speak before.  Are all very knowledgeable and also very skilled in what they do.  So, I think that you will find their presentations very interesting.  We’d also like during this session to have as much discussion as possible.  So, I’ve asked each of the presenters to keep their prepared comments to maybe 10 or 15 minutes, so that we’ll have an opportunity to ask questions of each of them after their presentations.  And also to reserve some time at the end of the session so that we can have a discussion about what each of them has presented.

 


So, by way of introduction, let me just say a few comments about the  Kodaks Allimintaris Commission.  This, as I had indicated earlier, is an international standard setting body.  It was created in 1962 and it’s actually part of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations.  The overall aim of the Kodaks Allimintaris Commission is to protect the health of the public.  Essentially, the health of all consumers around the world.  And also to facilitate international trade.  So it really has a dual meshing of public health protection as well as establishing a level playing field with respect to public health protection for food that’s engaged in international trade.  Kodaks in Latin actually refers to food law or food code.  So the Kodaks Allimintaris is an international food code.  The members of the Kodaks Allimintaris are representatives of the different governments that are participants in the Kodaks.  There are over 100 countries that are represented.  And, there representatives to the various committees and subcommittees within the Kodaks process.  Develop standards for all of the principle food products that move in international commerce.  And those food products can be processed products.  They can be minimally or semi-processed foods or they can be raw agricultural commodities.  The Kodaks committees establish standards that relate to not only the safety of food, but also the nutritional aspects of food.  So, they deal with safety as well as nutrition.  And also with quality of aspects of food.  Some examples of the types of standards that are included in the Kodaks Allimintaris are microbiological standards, so for papagenic organisms in foods.  Standards that relate to food additives, substances that are added to food because of the specific functionally properties that they provide.  Kodaks also sets standards with respect to pesticide residues, environmental contaminants in foods, and also is increasingly in recent years looking at labeling of foods.  As well as the methods of analyses and sampling that are required in order to meet any of the standards that are set.  So, as you can see, the Kodaks activities span all of the standard setting aspects that would relate to the safety and nutritional quality of foods.  Under the general agreement on tariffs and trade, Kodaks is actually, receiving even more prominence than it has in it’s history to date.  And the World Trade Organization very much looks to Kodaks Allimintaris as the international standard setting body for food safety.  So, I don’t know to what extent any of you may have heard about Kodaks in the past, but it plays a very important role and a growing role in food safety around the world. 

 

I’d like now to introduce our first speaker for this session.  She is Mrs. Margaret Glavin, and she is Deputy Administrator of the Food Safety and Inspection Service at the US Department of Agriculture.  Maggie has spent, I think, her entire career working with USDA.  She has had a variety of different positions with the Food Safety Inspection Service within the department since she joined FSIS in 1983.  And prior to that she held a variety of positions with the food and nutrition service, also within the Department of Agriculture. So, her career has spanned aspects dealing with nutritional aspects of food and food assistance programs within the Department of Agriculture.  And since she’s been with the Food Safety Inspection Service, she has primarily concentrated on safety aspects of meat and poultry.  Mrs. Glavin is going to be talking about a model for food safety regulation for meat and poultry that is currently the norm for us here in the United States.  Mrs. Glavin.

 

MRS. GLAVIN: Thank you.

 


I am going to talk about a norm and its the one I know best.  It’s how we regulate meat and poultry for safety in the country, in the United States.  The Department of Agriculture regulates meat, poultry and egg products.  And these three products account for approximately 1/3 of the consumers spending on food in this country.  Our roll is to ensure that meat, poultry, and egg products are safe.  That they’re wholesome.  And that they’re properly labeled, that is informatively and correctly and honestly labeled.  In order to do this, the way we carry out our regulatory system is in several parts.  The main part being, we inspect, we have inspectors and veterinarians in more than 8,500 federal and state meat, poultry, and egg processing plants.  That includes both slaughter plants and plants that further process those products into hot dogs, TV dinners, pot pies, you name it.  We also, as part of our inspection arm insure the equivalence of inspection systems of those countries that export meat, poultry and egg products to the United States.  So, we review their systems, both on paper and by on-site visits, to make sure that those countries have systems of protection that are equivalent to ours.  We also reinspect meat, poultry, and egg products coming into this country at the point of entry.  In addition to inspection, we have a strong enforcement program to ensure food safety standards are being met by the industry.  And this enforcement program goes beyond the meat and poultry plants into the distribution chain and on into retail.  We also respond to cases of outbreaks and clusters of food borne illness and conduct epidemiological investigations in order to determine the causes of those illness and as appropriate to remove offending products from the market place so that consumers can be protected.  An example of that is a recall that is going on right now, of a meat product that was traced to an illness that occurred in New York state.  And those products are being recalled so that consumers who still have the product in their home know not to use it.  So that they won’t get sick.  They can bring it back to the store where they bought it.  We also carry out a comprehensive food safety education program to help consumers learn how to keep food safe in the home.  Our food safety education program has a number of audiences, it includes people who work in food service, restaurants, etcetera, but it also includes household consumers.  And in the handout packet, I put together some of our, a selection, of our materials, our food safety education materials that are directed at the household consumer.  So, I thought that might be interesting for you to look at.

 


At USDA, for meat and poultry, public health is our number one priority.  We begin a strategy of change about three years ago, which puts our focus very firmly on preventing food borne illness.  Our goal is to address gaps in our traditional food safety system and to better address mycrocial pathogens.  Our traditional inspection system has been very effective in determining and keeping away from the market place products that have obvious defects or that are keeping out of the food chain diseased animals.  But its not so good at finding microbial contamination and keeping that out of the market place.  So, our current effort is to adjust the system so that our efforts meet that challenge as well as the other challenges that we’ve been meeting all along.  We require meat and poultry plants to meet certain standards.  To ensure that their products are safe, wholesome, and correctly labeled.  In other words, our responsibility is to make sure that it’s safe, wholesome and correctly labeled, but it is the plants responsibility to produce that kind of product.  So we given them certain standards they have to meet to ensure that that is going on.  Each plant must have a standard operating procedure for sanitation, and plants must have, this isn’t in all plants because we’re phasing this in, but as we phase it in, plants must develop and implement a hazard analysis and critical control point system to ensure the safety of food.  In addition, slaughter plants must meet performance standards for salmonella on their product and plants are required, slaughter plants are also required to collect and analyze samples for generic ecoli.  And that’s to serve as marker of how well they’re doing on their dressing procedures, how well they’re doing in avoiding contaminating the carcass with fecal material as they dress it.  We inspect more than 137 million livestock and almost 8 billion birds every year.  There are over 7,000 inspectors in approximately, as I said, 8500 federal and state inspected slaughter and processing plants.  These inspectors verify that industry is meeting the standards that we set for them and these inspectors also take regulatory action when necessary.  Sanitation and process control systems prevent adulteration of products.  There’s a link between a plants ability to control processes and the eligibility of products to bear the Department of Agricultures mark of inspection.   Meat and poultry and egg products can’t be sold in interstate and foreign commerce without this mark of inspection.  Withholding the mark of inspection, therefore, shuts the plant down.  So, a plant must have good processes, good control, in order for the inspector to apply the mark of inspection to the product which allows the product to into commerce.  Once the product leaves the plant with the mark of inspection, we continue to monitor the primary oversight at that point is handed over to the state and local authorities.  We have concurrent authority with them, but most of the work, once the product leaves the plant, is handled by state and local health authorities.  As I mentioned, in addition to our inspection, our standard setting, our compliance activity, we have a big role to play in food safety education.  The focus is on those involved in producing and preparing food from farm to table.  Partnerships are made to broaden the scope and impact of our educational efforts.  Obviously, behavioral change is important to help prevent food borne illness.  Our partnerships include a combination of various food safety initiatives, of federal agencies responsible for food safety, we have an established partnership for food safety education for, which is directed at Consumer Education.  We’ve also formed a food safety education and training alliance to address retail needs.  This is an area where federal, state and local government agencies are working together and industry and retail groups have also joined us in this activity.  As I said, in the packet which is in the back of the room, if you didn’t get one, there are some of our consumer materials.  These are the ones that are directed, or this is a selection of those that are directed at individual household consumers.  This is one of our newest, we have this little character has been designed, he’s Bac.  He’s a really slimy green bacteria.  And the little thing is Fight Bac.  And this is part of, this came out of the cooperative effort a number of federal agency’s and industry to come up with a single food safety message so that there weren’t competing messages out there.  So that the messages were consistent.  And the message, the overall message has four pieces, it talks about cleaning your hands, don’t cross-contaminate, cooking to proper temperatures, and handling cooked product properly, chilling a product promptly and keeping it chilled.  So, this is the sort of base of a broad campaign to aim at a variety of different audiences, but to make sure that they all get the same basic message about the four steps that we’ve agreed on.  Here’s Mr. Bac in Spanish.  We also have a lot of other products, such as something on kitchen thermometers, which we are pushing real hard for meat and poultry.  It’s extremely important to use kitchen thermometers.  Some handouts on the basics of safe food handling.  Something on bacteria causing food borne illness.  Here again, are guidelines for what you do when you shop, when you’re in the kitchen, when you’re cooking, and when you’re storing your storing your food after you’ve used it.  And then this is a nice little coloring book for children.  And, I know some of the WIC outlets, our Women Infants and Children’s outlets, use this coloring book.  And it has very simple good handling practices that we hope both the mothers and the children who use this will begin to notice and learn as they go through it.  So, this is aimed at children and daycare center settings and schools and as I said, in our WIC outlets we’ve used that.  I’ve also included for all of you who are somewhat local a little rolodex which gives our web site, our meat and poultry hotline number, our hotline is for consumers to call in with questions on food safety.  It’s used by industry as well, but its aimed at consumers and that’s always it’s available 24 hours a day for recorded kinds of information.  And it’s available all day long 5 days a week for actually talking to a real human being and getting your questions answered.  We also have a fast fax for media inquiries and so forth.  Our phone numbers and web site information and hot line number are there.  So, with that that, are there questions about what we do, how we do it, anything I can clarify, answer?

 

Q         Inaudible.

 

MRS. GLAVIN:  Okay.  I’m going to repeat your question so everyone heard it, and if I get it wrong, let me know.

 

The question is, when we have a food safety problem or perception of a problem, how do we make sure that consumers have good information and control or try to prevent unnecessary concern or alarm as consumers.

 

Is that, is that your question?

 


Let me talk a little bit about the incident we have going on right now.  And I think that’s a good example.  First of all, we work very closely with other agencies including the Centers for Disease Control, so that we become aware of illness which may be food related.  And so, in this case we had an illness in New York.  A woman became ill with ecoli 0157H7.  The epidemiologist, there are basically state and local epidemiologist at this point, began looking into this case.  Began to hon in on hamburger as a possible cause or source of this illness.  Both the store, where the product was bought, we knew where the product was from this epidemiological work, we were able from that to trace back to the stores suppliers.  And the suppliers and the store and the local people and the federal people began looking for more product.  The product that was in the consumers possession, was in fact, contaminated.  But it was open package.  And it was an open package that frankly had been quite abused.  It had been thawed and left on the counter and put back in the freezer and thawed again.  And so, so, we weren’t sure whether that, what the source of the contamination was.  It might have been contaminated in this consumers home.  So we continued to look.  One, the supplier to the grocery store was able to find some product in an intact package from the same production lot, and test of that product showed that it in fact was also contaminated.  So, we knew the source.  With that, we were able to work with the plant, and the plant has initiated a recall of this product.  And that’s going on right now.  So, our effort now, is to make sure that consumers who may have this product in their home, and because the product is boxes of frozen patties, it’s likely that it’s still in peoples homes.  Because people have put it in their freezer, they may be pulling it out to use this 4th of July weekend to use on the grill.  So, we’re, our interest right now, the plants interest is to get the product back.  Our interest is to make sure that household consumers check their refrigerator, see if they have any of this product, and if so, they don’t use it.  Ideally, they take it back, but as long as they don’t use it, that’s our interest.  So, our effort is really to make sure that consumers are informed.  That they know what the problem is, to the extent that we know it.  What the source is, and, therefore, what they can do about it. So, if we, for example, are not able to find a source, which in food borne illness is frequently the case, then we’re not able to do this kind of alert to consumers.  And that’s why I mentioned in remarks that one of the things that we’re involved in is looking at outbreaks of food borne illness, so we can find out if there is something that be done, if we can get the product back, if there’s something wrong with it.  Ideally, we prevent this from happening in the first place.  And, that’s what our new system of HAZOP is about, to make sure that product doesn’t get out there that’s got this problem in it.  But, when it does, so we that we can make sure consumers know what to do about it.

 

Yes?

 

Q         ...National Farm Regime I noticed in the publication that you put out, and I appreciate them, they’re very informative, that you said that the USDA ... more than 137 million livestock and almost 8 million birds every year.

 

MRS. GLAVIN: Billion birds.

 

Q         ...billion.  How many are there total?

 

MRS. GLAVIN:   No, no.  That’s it.  We inspect every single one of them.

 

Yes?

 


Q         In terms of our overall US production, what is the percent?

 

MRS. GLAVIN: It’s virtually everything.  Anything that is an interstate commerce is inspected by a federal inspector.  There are roughly 25 states that have state programs that are comparable to the federal one, and so they inspect, in those states, the state inspects product that is only sold within the state.  In state’s that don’t have a state program, everything’s inspected by a federal inspector.  But, all meat and poultry in this country is inspected.

 

Yes?

 

Q         As a meat producer who is also involved in looking closely at what’s happening in packing plant operations, I find a change right now from the old system to the new HAZOP system confusing, and for example, was recently at a conference where an individual representing the American Meat Institute stood up and said we know have an inspection program ... meat inspectors will no longer be inspecting carcasses instead they will be inspecting paper.

 

MRS. GLAVIN: Well ...

 

Q         Could you explain the hazard program in more detail?

 

MRS. GLAVIN: I would be glad to.  Yes.  Because you have heard from someone who is very misinformed.

 

The question was to explain what the HAZOP system really does. 

 

Q         Would you give the acronym?

 

MRS. GLAVIN:   Yes, thank you. 

 


That’s, we’re terrible in Washington, we only use acronyms and we assume everyone knows them.  HAZOP stands for Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points.  And that’s really the story.  The plant is required to have a HAZOP plan, which means, first of all, they must analyze their process.  If their process is slaughter, that’s what they analyze.  If their process is making hamburgers, that’s what they analyze.  They analyze that process to identify all of the potential hazards that could occur in their process.  These are food safety hazards, these aren’t quality.  These are food safety hazards.  And they have to identify their hazards, and for those hazards that they determine are reasonably likely to occur they must identify critical control points.  The CCP of HAZOP.  And the critical control points are those points in the process where a problem can happen and where you can intervene to prevent that problem.  So a critical control point might be for a cooked product, a temperature, a time and temperature.  If you’re making a sausage that you have a time and temperature critical control point.  In slaughter it might be your dressing procedures.  It might be your hide removal.  So each plant decides their own critical control points.  They then must monitor, they must have a system of monitoring those critical control points on an ongoing basis.  So, wherever they’ve identified a critical point, they have to monitor it and make sure that if for example, the critical control point is, as I mentioned a time temperature one, because that’s an easy one to illustrate, they have to make sure that at that point the product reaches the proper temperature for the proper amount of time.  They have to record all of this.  They also have to, when they’ve done all of this, before they ship the product, they have to review and make sure that all of this was done.  That the critical control points were monitored, somebody didn’t forget to monitor it in this shift, and that they were met.  Or if something had gone wrong, that it was appropriately corrected, and taken care of for that product.  So, so there’s another fail safe at the end.  It can’t be shipped until they’ve made sure not only do we have this wonderful system, but you know, because Mary Lou fell down and went to the infirmary, and it didn’t happen, something was done to correct that problem.  Because obviously errors occur.  So, that’s that’s the HAZOP system that plants are required to have.  Our inspection force will be moving, is moving as we phase in this new program.  From the kind of work they did before, which was looking at everything in the plant, and telling the plant management what was wrong and how to correct it and exactly what to do, the plant now has it’s own plan.  They’re responsible for doing this.  They have a plan, they have a system.  So our inspectors will be responsible for monitoring and verifying that the plant is carrying out its responsibilities.  It will be making sure that the critical control points are monitored.  Our inspectors will do some actual monitoring themselves of those critical control points, and see that they correlate with the plants monitoring.  Our inspectors will be looking at both the plants doing this kind of work and at the records to show that they are doing it consistently, and regularly and appropriately.  So, when this persons saying that all our people do is look at paperwork, that’s not what’s going on.  What’s going on is we’re providing standards for the plant to meet, telling them they have to design this system for how to meet it.  They then have to meet whatever they design.  They have to do whatever they design, and our people are there to make sure that that happens.  When it doesn’t happen, the product doesn’t get shipped. 

 

Q         So, in other words they’re no long inspecting carcasses?

 

MRS. GLAVIN: Oh, yes, they are.  Yes.

 

Q         Inaudible.

 

MRS. GLAVIN: Right.  And this is getting a little technical, but we look not only at the entire plant, in slaughter plants we also, as I think you asked, we also look at every single carcass.  We look at animals before they’re slaughtered and we also do what we call post mortem inspection, which means the carcass.  And, that is still going on.  And so our inspectors are still doing that while the inspectors who are responsible for the broader plant responsibilities are now looking at the plant systems.  And, I think I’m being moved out of my time.

 

MEDIATOR: Well, what I’m trying to do is to reserve some time at the end for overall discussion.  So, please do stay, because the speakers will stay and we will have a more open discussion than what we can do now.

 


I do want to move the program along, though, because the next speaker is also going to be talking about an area in which there is some very exciting change going on, as well.  As Mrs. Glavin indicated in her remarks, our system of food safety regulation here in the United States is a shared responsibility.  Federal and state.  And within the federal government there are two agencies that have regulatory responsibilities.  You’ve heard about the meat, poultry and egg products regulatory responsibilities of the food safety inspection service.  All other products, including eggs that are in the shell, are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration.  Our next speaker is Michelle Smith and Dr. Smith is a senior scientist in food technologist with the Food and Drug Administration.  And she has most recently been involved, and has actually been one of the principle drafters of new guidance material that the Food and Drug Administration has developed to minimize microbial food safety hazards for fresh fruits and vegetables.  The development of this guidance came as a result of a directive from President Clinton in October, to develop a new program to further assure the safety of produce, fresh fruits and vegetable available here within the United States.  So, Dr. Smith  is going to describe the voluntary guidance document that the Food and Drug Administration has developed.  How it was developed and how it fits into this larger presidential initiative in food safety.

 

DR. SMITH: Good afternoon, and it’s a pleasure to be here.  It’s been really exciting to be in the food safety area, and I’m very glad to see a number of people here who are obviously very interested in this topic. 

 

My involvement has been primarily in drafting a guidance document which we released recently for public comment.  April 13th we released a proposed version of the guide to minimize microbial food safety hazards for fresh fruits and vegetables.  Yesterday was the close of the comment period, so if that’s a critic, he can’t get in any more.

 


What the guide does, is it covers very general good agricultural and good manufacturing practices, most likely to reduce the risk of microbial food safety hazards.  This guide is part of the larger food safety initiative which the President announced early in 1997.  There are a number of elements in the larger food safety initiative, as you can see here.  The goal of the food safety initiative is to reduce to the extent possible, to the greatest extent possible, the incidence of food borne outbreaks.  While the food safety initiative, the larger initiative covers every step in the continuum between the farm and the table.  Recently, at a number of public meetings, we had, there was an international meeting in Washington, D.C., where we were looking for comment on this guidance document.  And there were a number of terms in different countries that they use in their food safety programs instead of farm to table.  One was plow to platter.  Did the Australian person leave?  That may have been Australia.  But that that was just kind of an interesting thing that we learn as we go along.  The very beginning of this continuum, the farm level, is an area where if there was specific problem and it was traced back to a farm, FDA would certainly get involved if this was a product that we have authority over.  But it’s not some place where we’ve spent a whole lot of time.  While our lives changed in October, when the President announced the produce and imported food safety initiative as part of this initiative he charged FDA to work in cooperation while he charged the Secretary of Health and Human Services in cooperation with the Secretary of Agriculture and in conjunction and cooperation with the agricultural community, to develop guidance for good agricultural practices.  Some practices at the very beginning of this continuum, to minimize microbial food safety hazards for fresh produce.  One of the questions that we’ve heard a lot is why produce and why now.  The incidence of food borne inspection linked to produce is relatively low compared to a lot of other classes, larger classes of food items.  But CDC has brought it to our attention that this incidence was increasing.  And there may be a number of reasons for this.  First of all, many public health officials are encouraging people to increase their consumption of fresh fruits and vegetables for health reasons.  Obviously, consumers have gotten this message.  Consumption has increased.  We don’t want anything that we do to have a negative impact on the increase consumption of fresh produce.  A lot of issues that have come up at public meetings have dealt with things like, be careful how you present your efforts to minimize microbial food safety hazards in produce, because we don’t want people to be afraid of eating strawberries or green salads.  Other factors that may have contributed to this increase are things like changing distribution patterns.  You know have produce from world wide sources available year round.  In addition, you have new products being introduced because of consumers desire for convenience type items, things like fresh cut salads.  We’re running into new pathogens.  And a lot of new challenges.  And, so, in a nutshell, those are the reasons why we’re looking at produce.  Not to single out produce, but to address another piece of the puzzle that we haven’t been as active in that area in the past as some of the other areas.

 

Now, a couple words about the guidance document itself.  This proposed guidance document, and I brought some copies with me, if anyone is interested and they haven’t seen it, but they would like a little lite reading.  If you are traveling and you don’t want to carry too much heavy stuff back home with you, I also have some copies of the notice of availability for the document which has a web address where you can retrieve the document, not just this one, but shortly comments that we’ve received on this document should be posted on the web, also.  Along with a number of other initiatives that we’re involved in.  The guidance document is a very broad scope document.  It’s intended to apply to fresh produce meaning fruits and vegetables that do not receive some kind of lethal treatment that would kill micro organisms or pathogens on that produce.  It’s intended to apply across all regions in the United States and in other countries of the world.  Because of this very broad nature our recommendations have had to be very general, in there nature, and in using this document to be most effective the people that are concerned with these issues, whether they’re growers, operators, packers, or at any stage along there, would need to take a look at these recommendations and figure out how best to apply them to there own operations.  The guidance document in voluntary.  It does not impose any requirements on anyway.  So, this is a different kind, and I hate to say a different model for regulating because since it’s voluntary guidance, it’s not a regulation.  But it’s something that we’re trying to put information out there to help raise awareness and promote adoption of good practices.  The guide focuses also on risk reduction, want necessarily elimination because I don’t know if the sciences is there yet.  There are a number of things that we don’t know.

 


We have, however, identified a number of areas of potential concern, both in the agricultural environment and in the packing house.  And these areas are water, water that may be used for things like irrigation, water also that might be used to wash produce before it goes to market.  The use of manure or municipal sewage sludge is also a potential source of contamination depending on how it’s treated and how it’s handled.  In this category also, you have the potential for wild animals or some uncontrolled introduction of pathogens into the growing or packing environment.

 

A significant area of concern is worker health and hygiene.  Also, the sanitation of all of the equipment that comes in contact with the produce.  The facility sanitation, and finally transportation.  many products could make it through the entire process and be very well cared for and then be loaded onto a truck that had previously carried cargo that could be a source of contamination.  Unless someone is responsible for ensuring that the truck is in proper condition, then all your efforts before hand have really been hurt.

 

As I said before, the guide is intended as guidance only.  Our goal with this document is to increase awareness of the potential sources of contamination for the field to the packing house, and to provide suggestions for practices that are most likely to minimize those potential hazards.  We’ve worked very closely with a lot of technical experts in many different federal agencies on this document.  We made a working draft available to the public last year, in November, and we brought in a number of people from State Departments of Public Health and Agriculture to take a look at comments that we received at that first go around.  Because this is guidance, it’s very very important that we have the buy in of the user community and we have as much input as possible from all the different perspectives that are involved.  This is a real exciting thing to be part of because of some many partnerships involved.  And, I really enjoyed the opportunity to work with a lot of the people that have been part of this. 

 

Now, the document itself starts with a section that has principles that are common to successful food safety operations.  Two of these principles are prevention of microbial contamination as preferred over corrective actions.  Once contamination has occurred, and starting at the very beginning of this food chain, gives you a really super opportunity to play a role in the prevention part of that.  Another principle that kind of echoes the previous presentation, is that it’s really important to establish a system of accountability at all levels of the agricultural environment.  If there are people or equipment or other systems that you have in place as part of your food safety program, there needs to be some kind of way to make sure that everything is functioning the way that it ought to.

 

Now, just for illustration purposes, I’ve brought a couple slides of specific recommendations that we make in two of these areas

 

Tape ended.

 


... on site visits there were varying levels of grower/packer willingness to assume the responsibility for this function.  It’s not an easy area, but it’s a really important area.  People need to be aware of food safety concerns.  They need to be aware of the importance of proper hand washing, when you’re handling produce, that’s not just a commodity, that’s a food item.  A number of people recently were saying, well, everyone picks stuff up in the supermarket.  Well, and they didn’t necessarily wash their hands, I think that even though packing houses are specifically exempt from some of the good manufacturing practices that we have in our code of federal regulations for food processing plants, the awareness level at the packing house needs to get just a little bit more formal in recognizing that that is food that they’re working with.  That’s my personal opinion.  With respect to toilet facilities, they need to be easily accessible.  People need to be able to use them when they need to use them instead of using the field or a ditch next to the field, etcetera.  They also need to be in good enough shape and well enough maintained so that people want to use them.

 

We have just ended our comment period on this proposed guide yesterday.  While we were waiting for the comments to come in, we had a number of public meetings and international meeting in Washington, D.C..  I know we’re getting comments from the international community and also domestic consumers and the domestic produce industry.  We will be working on this document, brining it up to date based on those comments through July and August, and we hope to have a final guide available by October 1st.  That’s a presidential deadline.  So, I don’t know that it can slide.  Following making the final guidance document available, the next step will be to take the information in this document and put it in a form that is useful and meaningful to the people that need this information.  On a domestic level, FDA is working extensively with USDA, CSRES, which is the lead agency as far as the education outreach aspect of this initiative goes.  We also have established an interagency international work group to look into different mechanisms for outreach and technical assistance on an international level.  A lot of what we’re able to do there will depend on what kinds of resources we get in upcoming budgets.

 

And just a couple of shots of places we’ve been and things that we’ve seen.

 

One more.

 

Okay.

 

Thank you.  Does any one have any questions?  Anything that I can address at this point?  I’m also going to leave copies of both the guidance document and the notice of availability on the back table for people to feel free to pick up.  I see one.

 

Q         Inaudible.

 

DR. SMITH: Okay.

 

Q         and I personally know that the American producer really cares about the health of the American consumer, or whoever consumes our product.  I’ve been really upset about the adverse publicity that we’ve received.  I don’t think we deserve it.  Especially, I remember the first reading about the ecoli that has caused illness, I believe Oregon.  Then later finding out that the ecoli had been found in imported meat.  Now, I never saw any headlines that said, hey, America, producers were blameless.  It was left as it was, and of course it was only after big beef investigators that we found where the source lay.  Does ecoli exist in a ribbon animal?

 

DR. SMITH: Yes.

 


Q         Then, can it be ascertained before that animal is slaughtered that it is a carrier of this bacteria, would that be a, I mean, if I let something like that, I would send it to Alpo, why can this not be an additional safety net?  No one wants to sell diseased beef for human consumption.  Actually --

 

DR. SMITH: It might even be a problem for Alpo.

 

Q         Well, the main concern is disease.

 

DR. SMITH: Well, I think you make a couple of very important points.  One is that the problems that we have disease causing micro organisms in foods are world wide problems.  It’s not just a US problem, it’s just not a problem in any single locality, but rather these are problems that we all share.  And I think the second very important point that you make is that there’s a whole lot that we don’t know about these organisms.  One thing that has been undertaken here in the United States is at the request of the beef, or actually at the request of the Governor of Nebraska, he asked that Chuck Shroeder, the President of the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, establish a beef industry food safety council.  And they have just in the last month or so completed a review of ecoli O157H7, and recommended a research program that would help to answer some of the questions that you’re raising about how wide spread is this within live animals, can we develop means that for intervening early to prevent colonization of livestock with this organism.  And there are various promising areas of research that look like they might be able to develop some interventions that can be used on the farm.  So, I think you are making two very important points. 

 

Yes, there’s a question at the back.

 

Q         Inaudible.

 

DR. SMITH: Well, I let me take a stab at paraphrasing your question and then responding to it.

 

Your question is what is the Department of Agriculture doing to help the industry face this problem of specifically ecoli O157H7, but perhaps more generally food borne illnesses.

 

Q         Inaudible.

 

DR. SMITH: Well, I think we’re doing a number of things with respect to providing information to consumers about food safety related problems and things that they can do to protect themselves and to minimize the potential for acquiring a food borne illness, and Mrs. Glavin referred to some of the activities that the Food Safety Inspection Service, with a partnership that is quite broad that involves  private sector organizations, many of the meat, organizations that represent producers as well as processors, are part of this partnership.  So, the development of the educational messages is a major activity that has been undertaken in a public/private partnership. 

 

Q         Inaudible.

 


DR. SMITH: Well, I, if you are characterizing the current ongoing situation that Mrs. Glavin described, I think you’ve mischaracterized it, because --

 

Q         Inaudible.

 

DR. SMITH: Okay.  Well, what you described was not the current situation.  Our primary emphasis is on protecting the public health from the regulatory perspective, and from that perspective we are providing information to consumers about general practices that they can undertake to protect themselves, which is what we’ve described.  And in the specific instances where we know that there is, that there are illnesses and we have made epimeiological links between illnesses and food products.  We request that the company that was responsible for producing and marketing that product recall that product.

 

Pardon?

 

Q         Inaudible.

 

DR. SMITH: Well, take the, take the current situation as a case in point.  The information that was  provided to the news media, yesterday, by the Department of Agriculture, indicated that we had initiated, or that the company had initiated a voluntary recall at our request, that the product had been distributed in 24 different states, it provided very specific information about the description of the product, the lot numbers that were involved, and that is the norm for our recalls.  We provide very specific information to the consumer so that they can act on it.  And that is really the essence of the communication that we are providing in a recall situation.  Proving accurate information that consumers can act on to protect themselves.  I think to kind of get us back on to track, for the rest of the session.  That our final speaker is going to be addressing some of your concerns as well, and I would like to provide her the opportunity to at least make some prepared remarks, and then we’ll open up the floor again for everybody. 

 

The final speaker in our session is Lisa Christianson, who’s the Director of Education in Consumer Affairs for the National Farmers Union.  And she’s going to be talking, I expect, about the realities of the situation, and as you can tell, there’s an enormous amount of interest from this audience in the producers perspective.  So, if you could kick off this discussion, then we’ll open it up again for broad comment.

 

LISA CHRISTIANSON: Thank you. 

 


And, and that’s a very easy thing for me to do.  I’m very honored to be here, up here with you, and I think that the USDA does a wonderful job in terms of providing regulations and developing systems for food safety.  Although we’re facing a situation currently in the global economy that we live in today, where food borne illness is a reality and millions of people in this country alone are, get sick every year.  And thousands of people die.  And, so, it’s important to stay vigilant and voluntary programs are a positive step, but required regulation is something that we of course look for in the future into make sure that producers in our country and in other countries are meeting standards that do protect consumers.  And, we, as a national organization, work on food safety and environmental issues specifically for those reasons.  Because our American producers are required to meet a tremendous amount of regulations, regulatory guidelines that other countries don’t necessarily have to meet, and yet they’re competing in that market place.  And, we feel very strongly that labeling is important, and we also feel very strongly that the American consumer market as well as other consumer markets all over the world are entitled to a safe food supply.  And, so we talk an awful lot about processing in an environmentally sound ways, we visit with people about the differences between family farm agriculture and corporate farming operations.  We certainly need to strengthen regulations even in this country, in terms of livestock production in in corporate situations, high concentration of livestock animals.  I’m sure you’ve been all over, I mean those are the kinds of things we’re facing here.  I think when you look at it from a global perspective, there even needs to be more discussion and vigilance and commitment by producers, consumers, and governments to provide safe food to the peoples of the world.  And that can only be done by governments through regulations because agribusiness is not going to do that.  I mean, they exist to make profits.  And, you know, governments are to be the voice of the people, and to be responsive to the needs of the people.  And, we as a producer group working with consumers when these kinds of things happen, we all suffer.  It’s not just when the information gets tracked down to whatever the source is, it’s not just that producer, it can be all the producers of that particular commodity that get a black eye from these situations.  You know, when we had the raspberry scare, well, then, you know, I know a whole bunch of people that just stopped buying fresh fruit. Because they were simply afraid of what they were facing.  And so, we need not only to educate ourselves, but we need to have the scientific research conducted so that we know how to deal with these problems.  I mean, I was just, the most recent report I read, last week, was talking about food borne illnesses in fruit and vegetables, now, that we don’t have antibiotics for.  You know.  And so then that becomes very dangerous.  You know, if we don’t know how to fix these kinds of things, and I think that we know, we know that in other countries that do not have the same standards as we do, particularly when they’re producing fruit and vegetables, the water supplies aren’t clean.  That seems to be one of the, you know, you talked about the water, well the water those vegetables are with that water, it contaminates all that fruit.  And so, even if we had food, a stronger food safety regulations in this country that would assist other countries if they want to have access to the American consumer market.  It would assist in raising there standards, because they’re probably not going to not want access to the American consumer market.  I mean, that is our thinking as a as a general rule or to the other markets of the world.  But, right now, the trade agreements don’t have those kinds of things in place in the agricultural product sector.  And we feel very strongly those kinds of things need to be re- to be addressed and work with Kodaks is something that as we, move forward in this global arena in the global market place that needs to be addressed.  So.  With that I think I’m going to turn it back over to you, and open it up for questions.  And, I’m seeing a lot of heads nod, and there might be people in the audience that want to share some stories, some more stories.

 

Q         Inaudible.

 


MEDIATOR: Sally, could you come up here and use this microphone.  What we’re going to try to do, is make sure that everybody is heard.

 

Q         My, I guess question, and what I’d like you to comment on is that as we know as scientist that ecoli exists in the animal and a lot of it seems that the beef industry does get blamed for it. But, how do you think you’ll fight that.  Mr. Bac is going to fit into this.  Because I think that’s an important instrument in educating consumers.  To let them know that it’s not all the producer.

 

A         Well, Mr. Bac fits right in.  Because if, if in fact, there is a failure and a piece of meat with a 157 on it, gets into your kitchen, the first thing Mr. Bac says is to wash your hands after you’ve touched that, both before and after you’ve touched that meat so that you’re protecting yourself.  The second thing he says is to be careful that you don’t cross-contaminate.  So, you don’t put your salad that you’re not going to cook on the same counter as you put the meat that you are going to cook.  And the third thing Mr. Bac says is to cook properly.  Meat that is cooked properly will not make you sick from 0157.  0157 is able to be destroyed by proper cooking.  And then, the fourth thing is the refrigeration, which doesn’t directly deal with the 0157.  So, if you get a contamination in your kitchen, you can protect yourself by making sure it doesn’t spread to other foods that aren’t, going to be eaten raw perhaps, or lightly cooked.  And that the product that it came in on is cooked properly.  So, you won’t get sick in those cases.

 

Q         I just want to direct a quick question to her.  How do you know that you have contaminated meat?

 

A         Unfortunately, you don’t.  You can’t see it.  It looks fine.  It doesn’t smell bad.  It’s it’s just looks perfectly good.  And so, the instructions that or the education we give to consumers is to assume that you have contaminated product, and treat everything carefully and cook it well.  At the same time, we’re working on the other end to try to lessen the chance that you are getting product that has contamination on it by the work we’re doing in the plants, and as Dr. Rotecki mentioned, there’s research going on, both by the industry and by the Department of Agriculture to see if we can stop the source of contamination in the living animals so that it doesn’t ever come into the meat plant.

 

Q         Okay.  I guess one of my major questions is just about what you mentioned about the contamination of meat.  How it doesn’t look any different than uncontaminated meat, and really what the roll of inspectors in HAZOP because my understanding is that the two ways to kill ecoli are proper cooking, which is consumer education, and I was also kind of wanted aside from that, wanted to know if you mentioned this in your press releases whenever you send out, you know, the accurate information, if  you go ahead and tell it, the consumers right then what they need to do inside their kitchen.  Okay.  And then the other way that your radiation of meat is another way to kill it, and that’s not part of really the HAZOP system yet, is it?

 


A         Well.  No.  An inspector can’t see microveal contamination on meat.  And that’s why we’re changing how we regulate meat.  First of all, by requiring the plants to have these systems in place so that meat does not become contaminated in the first place.  That’s coupled with microbial testing that goes on in plants to assure that, in fact, that’s happening and being successful.  And your last question was the radiation.  Yes.  The Food and Drug Administration last winter approved the radiation of meat and we are in the process of doing regulations to make that available.  We expect to have a proposal out this summer to make a radiation available to the red meat industry.  And, then it will be a decision of the industry where and when to use it.  When it’s most appropriate.  It’s not a silver bullet.  But it is another tool that will soon be available.

 

Q         Inaudible.

 

A         Okay.  The question was the plant that produce the product in the current recall, did it have a HAZOP system in place.  And the answer is no.  It was a plant, actually the plant was in Europe, but I don’t remember where it was.

 

AUDIENCE: California.

 

A         California, thank you.

 

MODERATOR: I’ve never got to moderate like this before.  This is -- come on down.

 

Q         My name is Sandra LaBlanc, and I’m Communications Director for the National Catholic World Life Conference, and for safety, for security is a major concern of our organization.  I’m sorry I missed the very first part of the first presentation.  You’re not addressing salmonella or physteria.  I just got back from the --

 

AUDIENCE: Inaudible.

 

-- do you want to?  Let’s get really disgusting.  I mean ecoli, if you use safe food handling procedures, you can really protect yourself quite well from that.  Salmonella and physteria are two really nasty things.  My father right now is 77 years old, he’s been in the hospital for a week, a week before that he’s been terribly ill with salmonella.  And we almost lost him.  They think they’ve traced it to fried chicken that he bought in a grocery store.  And grocery stores, I think are a major concern in terms of salmonella preparation, food preparation and serving.  There’s no plastic gloves that are used.  They might slice ham to your raw chicken, and package that up, and then they go run right over and slice your ham that you don’t cook.  So cross contamination is a problem.  I just got back from New Orleans, and every restaurant I went into said our mussels are pasteurized.  You know, so physteria is a major problem.  And these things crop up on you and you can become, I mean, children and elderly people can flat out die from them.  So, also, the use of chicken manure, both as livestock feed, as, there was a serious case of an outbreak with unpasteurized apple juice in Washington state, I believe.  I mean, those three things, I guess, I would like you to address.

 

MEDIATOR:   Okay.  Do you want to start on salmonella, and then you can talk about some of the shellfish and seafood related problems?

 


A         We’ve sort of focused on ecoli 0157 because the initial questions had to do with beef and one and beef tends to be a source of 0157.  Obviously, the other pathogens, food borne pathogens are of great concern.  Salmonella is of great concern.  We have a salmonella performance standard in our poultry plants now, which requires the poultry plants to reduce the incidence of salmonella in their plants.  Campholavactor is also an enormous concern, and is probably the leading cause of food borne disease, today.  At least leading cause of reported food borne disease today.  So, we’re interested in all of those.  And, the HAZOP systems is intended to address all of those.  It’s, remember I said that you had to identify hazards that are reasonably likely to occur in your plant.  So, for a poultry producer, the poultry producer probably wouldn’t worry about ecoli 015787.  We don’t think it occurs in poultry.  But, would worry about salmonella and Campholavactor, which occur quite a bit in poultry.  So, they would have systems in place.  They would have to design and put systems in place to deal with those.  And the safe handling practices work for all of the above.  The don’t cross contaminate, as you explained was happening in the grocery store, the cooking properly, all of the pathogens we’ve talked about so far are quite susceptible to cooking.  Now, there are some pathogens that aren’t.  But, the ones we’ve been talking about are susceptible to cooking.

 

MEDIATOR: Okay.  Dr. Smith, shellfish, fish and food safety problems and is physteria one of them?

 

DR. SMITH: Okay.  You’re starting to step a little bit outside of my area.  But, FDA is concerned about any pathogen of human health significance.  We have a number of people in our office of seafood, who are specifically looking at seafood safety.  We do have HAZOP requirements for the seafood industry.  A number of people in the seafood area and also in other food areas are concerned about physteria.  We have, in the works right now, regulations governing juice, whether it’s pasteurized or not, and labeling requirements to alert consumers to the safety concerns of unpasteurized juice products, so that they can make those kinds of purchasing decisions themselves.  In the retail area, which can be a significant source of contamination or cross contamination, we have a number of programs that are very active and one of the things that is happening right now, is that is an area where we are expanding our resources.  We’re getting some dollars to send more inspectors out there to see how things are done.  The last point about gloves.  Gloves are very much a useful tool in reducing cross contamination, but you have to careful that they’re not themselves a source of contamination.

 

A         I might just add of footnote.  On the physteria issue, my understanding is that, first of all our knowledge that this organism is extremely limited.  It’s one of these emerging pathogens.  The cases of illness that have been linked to physteria, has been from aerostilized water.  You know, people who are working around the water.  To date, to my knowledge, there haven’t been any cases that has been linked to eating fish.  So, there, it’s one of these new organisms that’s emerging and it’s one that is going to require a lot more careful examination. 

 

Lisa, you wanted to add something.

 


LISA: Well, I just think that, you know, when you talk about the physteria we should look at what is caused that.  And what is caused that is then another challenge in terms of looking at regulating in an environmentally sound way.  Swine operations.  North Carolina, you know, there are 11 million hogs in a particular area.  Because of those lagoon spills, into the rivers and excess of nitrates being dumped into the rivers.  That has, what has activated this micro organism, and, you know, we know very little about that.  And so, we get back to some basics in terms of how do we process food in an environmentally sound way, and then how do we deal with these problems.  And if we’re going to have accountability in agriculture, we need to have it across the, every single line.  And there has to be accountability throughout, in the trade agreements, in family farming, and corporate farming.  We need to have regulations in place, that are in the best interest of people living on the land and everywhere, or we’re going to continually face these kinds of challenges.

 

Q         Inaudible.

 

MEDIATOR: We were asked to use the microphone because they’re recording the session.  So --

 

Q         As to physteria, it’s my understanding that they, it’s not only the nitrates, but it’s also the phosphorous.  And that the Natural Resources Conservation Service is looking into standards for phosphorous.  And, further, the scientific, there’s not yet scientific proof that nutrients are, there’s not 100% proof, that nutrients are the real problem with physteria.

 

MEDIATOR: Thank you.

 

Yes.

 

Q         My husband and I raise the only fat-free beef in the whole world.  He spent 33 years of his life selectively breeding to create an animal that can be raised organically, and would be fat-free.  My question is, okay, I’ve told you.  Why aren’t you excited?  If I told you that since I’ve been here, I came here Saturday, my husband went out, he raped 14 women and killed their husbands, would you get excited?  I would.  I’d be on my way.  But seriously, why isn’t good news exciting?  Let’s spread the good news.  American agricultural producers are doing a wonderful job.  If you think that my integrity is for sale for the price of one or two animals, then you don’t know people in the American agricultural community.  We fight a good fight.  We’re independent, and stubborn as could be, and we are determined, we are determined.  You think it’s easy to raise animals or anything else for that matter?  We’re at 8,000 feet to 10,000 feet, we get 7 whole inches of rainfall a year.  And still we persist because we are committed.  As we’ve often said, this is our legacy.  Not only to our children, but to the world’s children.  That it can be done and it can be done right and it can be done well.  I think maybe USDA should start spreading the good news.  Spread the good news.  The American producer cares.  He does his very best to give the American consumers, or whoever,  the very best that he can produce. Come on, now!  We’re good people.  We deserve a hand.  We deserve a pat on the back.  And we deserve recognition.  Give it to us!

 

MEDIATOR: Thank you.  I can’t think of better note to end this session on.  Thank you all for a very stimulating afternoons discussion.  And I think we need to also give our producers the recognition that they deserve.

 


The final word.  Okay.  You’ve got to be on the tape.

 

AUDIENCE: One little tiny thing was that for Dr. Smith, I was going to ask you about that, we found out for a fact that these organisms listed in salmonella and others that have been isolated from beef are also in vegetables.  So, could you comment on that, it’s been isolated like in lettuce and some other things, could you comment on that, please?

 

DR. SMITH: Okay.  As I mentioned earlier, we’ve identified a number of areas of concern as far as sources of contamination.  Most food borne pathogens are from either human or animal fecal matter.  Either directly or indirectly, such as, carried in the water supply.  So, any pathogen that could be in an animal could also potentially be transmitted to fresh produce, depending on the way it’s grown and the way it’s handled past production.  One of the things that I didn’t mention earlier, we’re doing a guidance document because the science base is not there right now for regulations.  We don’t know about pathogen survival in the field environment, but we’ve also accelerated research programs at a number of different agencies to help find those answers. So, that’s, we’re working on it.

 

MEDIATOR:  Well, please join me in thanking the speakers and also recognizing all of your participation.  Thanks so much.