Grace Newell from Tanzania. Tanzania is in east Africa. We have 3 countries of east Africa, that is Tanzania, Kenya, and the Uganda. Yeah. In fact my role this afternoon is to present to you a little bit of information on the practical solutions with regards to Day care centers for children and elderlies. In fact my center of discussion will focus mainly on child care centers, because we don't have much to do with elderlies in my country. Yeah. I'll tell you later why traditionally elders in my country are being taken care of by their families. Yeah. So maybe, if there are questions based on that, how families take care of the elderlies, then I can respond on that. But not much literature, I think I can say there is no literature, there has been study which has been done with regards to day care centers for the elderlies. Yeah. Okay then. I'm sorry I had to present my paper on overhead, it's so unfortunate I have a moving baggage, so everything was there. But only now I have all the information with me so, is not a problem. Yeah. We all know that children, particularly those under 5 years of age, are among the most vulnerable groups in many communities today. And they are prone to many diseases. And malnutrition is the most affecting the under 5 children. In fact, if I may talk a little bit on why these children are the most vulnerable nutritionally, it is because they need a lot of nutrients for their proper growth and development. The requirements are a lot for their growth and development. But on the other hand also, since we are going to touch something on the elderlies, the elderlies also need good nutrition. They also need good care for their proper and good and comfortable aging process. If good wishes were all be adults and we would be going the elderly people. So we move to really age in it more comfortably that is why many communities today will have to find ways and means of taking care of the elderlies because also elderlies they form a very important role in the society, in particularly, the families they're heading. So it is important also to think of them. So, I talk about malnutrition affecting the under 5 children. One reason, which leads to children, particularly those under 5 years, been affected by malnutrition is inadequate food intake. We know on the other hand it is the diseases but then that is not our interest. Our interest is on food, because we are going to talk of child care centers in agricultural communities. What are the practical solutions with regard to this day care centers and the agriculture in our communities. So, here, I will just look at one side of it, that is malnutrition here is mainly due to inadequate food intake. And food means good nutrition. And good nutrition means good production. If there is no production, then there is no food. If there is no food, people get jeopardized nutrition wise. So the most affected ones are the under 5 children. Okay. So, if there is no food, enough food intake. What does that mean? It means the households, are food insecure, there is not enough food at household level, that is why you find people lacking food, it interfered the under 5 children. Hence, they are malnourished. If I may talk about Tanzania experience. The infant mortality rate which is mainly due to malnutrition being the major cause is about 105 children per 100 live beds die each year. So, malnutrition is a problem. 105 out of 100 live beds, they die. Hundred thousand, sorry, 100,000, I mean 100,000 live beds. They die out of malnutrition. That is infant mortality rate. And the children mortality rate in Tanzania, which is mainly due to inadequate food intake, is about 167 out of 100,000 live beds. And, you know, malnutrition is not something good because it impairs the mental capabilities and physical abilities. So, somebody, an individual as well as the society in general is disabled. It leaves the society with a number of disabilities, mentally and physically. We are ......... Of food security with regards to the agricultural communities. In Tanzania, it is estimated that 7 million people are chronically food insecure. And 40% of the total population, Tanzania population is 27 million people, but until, up to the 2000, maybe it will be more than 30 million people. But until up to now it is 27 million people. So, what I'm saying here is 40% of the total population is in drought or flood prone areas, and if the population is hit by drought or flood, it means production is poor. It means that there is no food. It means that is food insecure. So, that is what causes malnutrition to the under 5s? In this population the 40%, they also face transitory food insecurity. There are other also outlying causes that lead to malnutrition of the under 5 children and these are inadequate basic services, health services particularly, so they contribute to the malnutrition of the under 5 children. Then it has been of the interest of the country not to wipe out completely these malnutrition in the country and as a result then the country has committed itself particularly in the formation or formulation of ..... policies and programs. And among these programs or policies that include reduction of inequality among the people, food security for all the people, provision of social services particularly for children there is this program of growth monitoring to see how properly the under 5 children are growing. If they are growing normally or they are staggering or diverging following a pad which we use in our clinics. So in fact our government has put more and more of its attention on the growth monitoring of the children together with the food intake of the children. Then this program is community based. Why community based we shall see later, because we tried several other means to cut malnutrition, it didn't work until when we used a community based nutrition rehabilitation system. And it worked and this is the approach that I will advocate in establishing a day care center for the children. A community based approach.

OK. So the community based approach, you'll have to excuse me I have a hoarse voice. Sorry! So the community based approach in combating malnutrition in Tanzania led to an increased amount of day care centers. Because the parents of these children understood it cryptically that we don't have enough food at all, so, let us do something. And the steps which we are taking by the government was to create awareness and to sensitize the communities about the ways to identify their problems. An after getting it clearly how to identify their own problems without anybody coming into them and telling them that this is a problem for you they realized the importance of this community based rehabilitation units which later gave birth community based day care centers for the children. Because in these centers, it was the roll of the community ... to help them identify their problem they thought of strategies to combat that problem. So they thought of all possible strategies to bring together under one roof their children and ways to provide all the necessary things that were required for proper growth and development of their children. And as such, these program managed very well and it is very sustainable. So, what I want to tell you is, this community based the program uh started way back in late 70's and early 80's and a review which was done by one UNICEF project which is called Chid Survival Protection and Development Program or CSPD under UNICEF made a review of how these community based nutrition rehabilitation units had managed to solve the problems of the under 5's. And a review which was done by the UNICEF in 1991 proved that the community based program were doing very very well and the rate of malnutrition among under 5 children had extremely gone down. And as a result then, many day care centers were formed under the community based approach. Nonetheless, uh, despite this achievement from community based approach there are factors which need to be addressed because these factors that limit the achievement of the goals of many day care centers. And these factors include the knowledge and skills of those who are taking care or the care takers and attendants knowledge and skills. Majority of them it was not easily ..... they lack knowledge, proper knowledge and they lack proper skills of taking care of these centers. And in fact even when we are going to establish day care centers for the elderlies we have to have well knowledgeable people in terms of care takers or attendants who knows exactly who are these children, who are these elderlies, what are their requirements in terms of nutrition, what are their requirements in terms of their age? So, what is their problems? What is their physical problems, physiological problems so that they can provide adequate and proper care. So, this question of knowledge to the care takers as well as skills in taking care of our children and the elderly is a very important or crucial issue. The equipment and facilities which are used in these day care centers it is a problem and in fact it has been a problem hampering achievement of the goals intended in day care centers. They are not enough they are not the right equipment we are using the children's plays that you get small dolls that it creation in case of, in terms of, I mean, in case of elderlies they need recreational facilities, recreational areas. The elderlies are people who are lived alone at home particularly if we are seen in Tanzanian case they are being taken care of by their families or their grand-children. They are being left alone all the time of the day. So we need in fact and the government has understood that they need somewhere to be put during the day when the families when those members are engaged in other how, I mean, in other field activities because in Tanzania agriculture is the big one of the society. So, people have to go to their farms to their fields now these elderlies are left alone, so they need some centers whereby they can spend most of these daytime in talking to others, ....... activities, physical activities, and things like that to remove that loneliness.

Now, another limiting factor of the achievement of these day care center's goal is inadequate community mobilization. As I say, community based approach is the most workable, working approach that has been used by various people but then when we mobilize the communities properly and they were informed, do they really perceive the need of creating these centers? Because if they don't perceive the need of creating such centers then the concern of sustainability is out, because they will say after all we don't find it a problem. But if they will be left alone to identify their problem and perceive the need of creating such centers then, I am quite sure that they are going to survive these day centers. So the problem .... is inadequate mobilization of the community to perceive the need for creating such centers. Is it a problem which is a limiting factor and which has contributed to not achieving our goal, our ultimate goal, in day care centers is the financial element to resource constraint. Everything needs money. Every thing needs material. Well, there are those local materials obtained locally from the community but are they enough to cater for everything that is needed in this care center. So, here comes the question of finance. We need money. So as to supplement those things we that cannot afford or that we cannot gain within the community or from these contributions from the community members.

Another limiting factor is the food insecurity as I said earlier. If there is not enough food how can you create a center, because at the center they need food and I as I mentioned earlier, the question of malnutrition it won't affect only the under 5 children but also these elderlies. You cannot put them at the center if there is no food. Food is very important because their health depends on good nutrition. Their well-being depends on good nutrition. It be children it be the elderlies so food insecurity isn't a problem that needs to be addressed if someone needs uh, intends to have a good day care center. And Tanzanian experience has shown that there is food insecurity because there is under utilization of locally available foods. We have a lot of local foods. But people in the community tend to look down upon those foods as food for the poor. For example we have sweet potatoes. We have pumpkins. We have cassava. But people tend not to use these foods or if they are using they under utilize it because of thinking that it is food for the poor. But if you come up with good recipes in preparing different things from cassava, then they can make use of these food and in the day care centers we might not have food shortage, actual food shortage so to speak. We have also the question of the questions of beliefs and taboos, pass downs and traditions. You take your child to the day care center, they might be thinking oh my daughter, oh my son, might be bewitched or the they son or daughter might be falling into wrong hands. Things like that. They don't trust other people to take care of their children. Particularly when it comes to the question of employing somebody that the community itself, the parents themselves of the children or not informed so thoughts, beliefs, traditions, customs also hamper the achievement of the intended goals of the day care centers. And as I said earlier, insufficient involvement of the community. If the community is fully involved then these problems can really be tackled.

Now coming back to agriculture. What is the roll of agricultural communities in, I mean, on the health of these vulnerable groups. Can agricultural communities or agricultural practices play any roll on the health of these people. It is true the roll of agriculture on the health of these vulnerable groups is very very important. One thing is that with agricultural we have agricultural produce and when we have agricultural produce we have food. We have to change our means and ways of production. And what type of foods do we produce is very very important. Is it cash crops only? As opposed to food stuff. If you are producing cash crops only then it is a problem of food shortage. If people are not knowledgeable enough on how to spend the income that comes from the food crops, then there is little that they should ... would be paid to buying food from what they gain from the food crops. So, agricultural production and composition is very very important and this would be a major roll in providing food security to day centers. Income as I said, how do you use the income? It be cash or kind. How much is consumed and how much is sold and how do you spend that income? Does the vulnerable group benefit out of that production? The commodity prices given to these agriculturists, how are the prices? Do they benefit form what the sell? From their produce. Or are the prices very low which discourages them from growing whatever they are growing? So that the good sense of the percent of community prices has only offered me a .....The promotion of home consumption into the sale of the surplus as I said, also needs to be addressed. The choice of the technology. Majority of community practice in farming has been until now, they are using hand hoes. How much do you get at the end of the day? How much yield if you are using a hand hoe? You can imagine. And as I said earlier, 70% of production, in my country, Tanzania, is done by women. These women don't have tractors. They don't have modern farm implements. It is the hand hoe in the rural communities. So. Modern technology again here, is a question to be addressed. So as to get enough yield to spend on food and supplies ... so as to supplement whatever is required in the day care centers.

Nutrition one of the food that is being grown as I said earlier. Is it food crop? Is it cash crop? How much is consumed? And how much is sold? That is an important question to be addressed in agricultural communities. Now, how can we help with these rural communities? Those which depend solely on agriculture. There are various ways that we can help them to produce more. One is the introduction of hybrid seeds to improve the yield per acreage. And also to educate them on ways of using this hybrid as opposed to those seeds that have been kept from the previous harvest. So the question of hybrid will lead them to producing enough. Assistance to supplies. Supplies are very very expensive. And as I said, they are producing using hand hoes, so there is very little to be sold for surplus. That surplus will go for food and not for supplies for supplies are very very expensive so the government here is trying hard also to introduce credits for the farmers for us to be able to buy different supplies, the credit finance. Okay. Have said so now, let's see on the factors this affect adequate care for children, and as I said this factors also can also be used in day care centers for the elderlies as well. What are the factors affecting? Adequate care in the day care centers for both children and elderlies. There is the question of food acceptability particularly to the elderlies. Is it their choice? Is it their taste? Is there any food to buy or believe that prevent from using such type of food. It turns out you give the food if it is at the center to the elderly if it is not food which is quite use to them, they tend not to accept because it is not their taste. The result is food insecurity and poor nutrition and deterioration of their health. The knowledge of the caretakers is, as I said earlier, do they know what these groups need? What are the requirements? Physiological status of the children and the elderlies. What about the question of physical activity? The physical activities here, I mean that actual biological utilization of food by an individual. It will depend on the health of individual. If the individual is sick, then the bio availability of food in ones body is low. So they need to know what is that status of their health. And here now we have to have those village health workers to also come in to check gradually on the health of these people at the center. We need also encourage physical activity particularly to the elderlies. The more active the body, the more utilization of the food you are providing. So the bio availability of food will depend on how active ones body is. And it will determine the activeness of the body will also determine utilization of the food in the body. The question of time. Time is another factor that can effect in one way or the other the food adequacy or the adequate care of the children and the elderly. Time availability. Women in my country are the major producers. They have over 101 household calls. They have to go to the farm. They have to go distances looking for water. They have to do all the necessary household calls. Taking care of the family and cooking for the family. So, if there's not enough time, care for these vulnerable group goes down and their health is really affected in one way or the other. They don't have time to cook. In fact from the village where I come from they are used to only one meal. Food is there, but they don't have time to cook. They are busy with farm work, with the field work. So time is also a question to be addressed if really we want to have meaningful day care centers. Food and water also is a problem in our society. If you don't have enough water you will tend to go for easy cooking foods that prolong the cooking foods whereby you have to add water from time to time is not entertained. So the care of the vulnerable is also affected in this way because of lack of fluid, lack of water. Okay. Now, what is the role now of the community in the day care centers? Community has an important role here. The community has to be enforced particularly the parents of the children. You want any practical solution to take place you have to involve those who are mostly affected because they know the causes and they know the impact. So the role of the community here is to be able to identify it's problems, it's own problems, and to find out the practical solutions to its problem. As a result then the people if they understand, if they are not trained if the perceive the need then it is easy to establish such a center. Community also has to look for ways and means of raising funds. As I said earlier, there is discussion of financial constraint. There are various ways where by communities can raise or generate funds. One of them is to contribute various resources that are required in the centers. Like food. During harvest time they contribute food to the center. They contribute utensils or equipment that has been used. And that has been working. They contribute ... they contribute also labor or service. They work at the centers in time. Today it is this families time or this households to go and to work at the center. Tomorrow is another family. So they work at the centers in turns. And it really works. Then you don't have to employ so many people. Your best employed one attendant or one care taker who is fully knowledgeable on nutrition and one village health worker who is knowledgeable on the health side. The rest of the activities is done by the community members themselves. So it is another important way of contributing towards sustainable day care centers. Projects. Project establishment, this project should be established at, I don't know what are in you're villages, but in my area we have villages at the village level all at community level. They come up with physical projects in whatever is and from that project goes to the center. In such a way the financial constraint is at least reduced because of what is being gained from this project. If also there are other government projects within that village they have to contribute a little to the day care centers. In fact, also they contribute to the financial aspect. Okay. What about the role of extension workers the government and the party leaders. Day care center, although it is within somebody's community there are those government leaders leading the same community. The party leader ..... the party leader within the same community. They have to play their role also. It is part and parcel of the community and their major role here is to educate and sensitize the community. In collaboration with the extension workers within the locality. And also the party leaders in the government have to play a role of mobilizing the community on using the local available resources. Now having said all that, what now are the practical solutions which we think if we employ them in our communities, they might work in one way or the other. I have come up with various practical solutions one of them is involvement direct involvement of those people who are directly affected. Don't come up with your project and design and impose it to the community. They will never understand you. Involve them from identifying their problem in planning process in management process in organization, let them organize their activities in implementation, evaluation and monitoring process. So involve those who are directly affected. In case of the children involve the parents of the children. Involve ........ elderlies those whole bodies are still able, they are still strong, involve them. Get their ideas. If how to go about dealing with their practical solutions for proper and good aging process. Education to care takers and attendants is another solution which can work. sensitization to policy makers and decision makers. If you sensitize them, if they are aware of what is taking place then it is easy for them to come in and mobilize the community. In proof on the advocacy, if there is an advocacy particularly information, education and communication activities. This will empower the communities on how to identify and solve their problems. So the question of empowerment here to the community through information, education and communication activities to the community. Establishment of food security system. To address the problem of food insecurity. Particularly during harvest time. If they have harvested enough the communities should be taught or should be sensitized or should be mobilized to bring food into the central storage system for the future use. In this way you can address the question of food insecurity at the centers. The introduction of congregate meals. Congregate meals here is meals taken together. Here you can address the question of malnutrition. With proper knowledgeable day care centers, day care takers at the centers, they can get good food which means good nutrition, if the meals are prepared together. If they are eating together. And in case of elderlies, because they are lonely, because they are depressed, they lack appetite. But if they are together, then it is obvious they will be encouraged to take something with them. Day care projects, as I say, is important. And last one is the use of the retired officers. In fact this is a Tanzanian experience. We are using, making use of the retired education officers in our day care centers. They are very good because they have been education, they have been education officers. They know exactly how to handle these people psychologically. They know what they need and they know their likes and dislikes. And from Kumwa we have one who is very good at creating the children plays and children models from local available materials. You don't have to buy anything. Just from local available materials in the trash, in fact. He makes it very very good children models and he provides these models to the day care centers. So we don't have to buy things for children's play. And children's play, as you know, are very very important. They stimulate thinking, creativity and things like that. And now, in conclusion I can say that, in fact there is no single practical solution to the day care centers, because the problems that comes in the day care centers are so complex and they are not sectoral. So it is important to involve many sectors and it is important to have clear and well defined policies that define clearly the roles of each sector in these day care centers. That is why I have come up with health sector, education sector, the policy maker, the decision makers. Together, then, they can put their heads together on how to go about solving these problems. Thank you very much for your attention.

MEDIATOR: Are there any question? Suggestions? Problems?

PARTICIPANT: Good afternoon, my names Roan O'Hagen, I'm from Australia and I was just going to be speaking briefly. I've got a few overhead and then I've got a few slides to show you. It's interesting that most of what Grace said this afternoon, we find that same basic principles applying to successful child care programs in Australia. So, I'll just run through what I've got here. You'll find at the end that a lot of the conclusion that we come to are the same. We might need the lights off, Pamela. I've got some overhead to run through. I think you can all see that once we get the lights down it might be a little bit easier. Basically that's the target of my presentation. What I want to run through today is why we're talking about child care, rural child care, what's the difference between child care in rural areas and child care in the cities. Talk a little bit about the Australian scene, child care, how the Australian system operates. Then a little about successful child care models. And the universal principles that have come out form model child care models that actually work. Then I've got a few slides to show you. And then I'll, hopefully we might get some discussion going. Can you see that or is it too light? Okay?

Unintelligible

...and they're going at to work off farm as well as working more on farm. The farm as you know is one of the areas we combine workplace and home which can be convenient at times but it is also makes it very difficult if you are also looking after children. And that brings us to the theme of farm safety because of course as the Canadian man was talking about yesterday there is a, or was it this morning, there's a fairly serious occupational health and safety issue for not only parents who are charged to look after a child and are distracted from what they are doing but also safety for the children while they are on the farm. There's also the aspect of social equity where in Australia we have government policy and also we are signatories to international conventions about equity for workers that's within your responsibilities which means that they should be able to carry out their work while at the same time knowing that their family are being cared for. The socialization for children who as you know in rural and remote areas often don't have interaction opportunities. Education access to studying training particularly for farm women. The multiple roles of farm women. They may be spending time on the farm, off the farm, or also working in the community, often voluntarily. The other thing about rural child care is there are only small numbers of children, and this adds to, of course, the cost and the distance that they those children have to go to get a number of children together for playing. Someone had mentioned about the lights .... Pardon? It's Okay? The child care system in Australia, there's federal funding for child care, the states are responsible for regulation, and the local government is often responsible for administration of community based states. The main states that we have are Cindy Bears Long Day Care; Family Day Care, which is children going to the home in the carriage or in the day; Out of School Care, which is a before and after school hour programs; Occasional Care, which is the short periods; and of course, Informal Care.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

SPEAKER: The assistance, government assistance goes to these main stay, but it's a fairly general main stay, so you have to be earning well above the average wage to be above the cover point. There's two, two types of assistance you get. A percentage of the amount you spend, up to a certain amount; and that actually gets paid to the child care center and they give you a rebate. But you can also get a cash rebate on the additional that you pay. So there's two methods of it.

Talking about rural child care models. Now those systems that I was talking about before those child care stays, they operate mainly in the metropolitan areas. They do also operate rurally in the larger provincial towns. But when you start to get further out, rural families looking for slightly different stays that are mostly to be made for their circumstances. We have what's called Multi-Purpose Centers, that's to include first or kindergarten centers; occasional care, which is short take-a-break type care; and, also, they run programs that for education which includes child care to make those programs accessible for adults. In particular women. We also have special programs for average and ..........., indigenous Australians, and may often have a combination of multi-purpose centers and May well services. The main stream that I want to talk about today, which is the one that I've been involved with is called the Farm Based Child Care Project, so I'll be talking a little bit about that in a moment. The other is Remote Services, which are for communities that are, or a lot of communities that are isolated families, and there's various services for them. In other words, this is still being developed but they're basically on a mobile basis where even the ....for two or three weeks at a time to give some rest spot to the family or say travel around and meet in small communities. They'll take the service to the remote community rather than the other way around. The Farm Life Child Care -- You've got a question?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

SPEAKER: Well the more of our services are the -- it's basically a variation on that mobile thing and mainly it means that you can have one service, service means more than one venue, and they take most of their equipment with them in their van.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

SPEAKER: No, they usually have their venue, which may be a home or a preschool or sometimes school, even. A lot of the time the small schools they use for that sort of thing on certain days of the week. The mobile preschool will come and visit, like a mobile library. But they bring all their equipment with them. Some, a lot of centers may only be serviced by the mobile every two weeks or something like that. The Farmers Child Care project, which I was talking about before, this is our logo. And as you can see, the carers bring the equipment with them. They have four wheel drive. And there's several -- there's various ways in which the service is delivered, let me put it that way. Mostly, it is a mobile service so that there's a central administration, where the main staff member comes back to and administers the service farm. What they do is they take their van and they drive up to various venues, and one of the advantages to this system is that local venues they use, often they are only local holes, which are under utilized and have be abducted for the purposes of the child care. I'll show you some slides of those later. There is also a facility for in-home care, where there may only be 2 or 3 children and it's not worth going to a venue. The carer will actually come to the home on those occasions. There's also the opportunity for the service to go to set up at a field day or an agricultural show or something like that on a once only basis to enable women or both parents, perhaps to participate in education and training without having to be concerned about the children. And the whole thing is operated by community based management committee, which is actually made up of the individuals who were on the steering committee. It took us 5 years from when we commenced this project. We started off with a small amount of government money to run the search project as to what the needs of the community were, and how such a project like this may operate, the model that we came up with is the one that I just explained to you. And after 5 years without funding from both the federal and two state governments to run the project as a pilot. And that's why it's happening that way at the moment. Once the child is over about 3 years, then we're hoping that some of the lessons that we learned from this, we may be able to take it into other parts of Australia. So getting back to what I was saying earlier about the unique qualities of rural child care, what the difficulties are, and what the promotions might be. One of the good things about Farm Based Child Care is it's locally based and starved, which means people living in those communities can use their own expertise, it also brings money into that local economy, is the services operating within that economy people can go out and do their work, but the can also be employed as carers within the service. It also goes back to what Grace was saying about being community based and people having a some ownership of the program. Now, the other mobile service which is operated out of the same center as this Farm Based Service that she goes out to service aboriginal communities and groups of non-English speaking women. In a city, in a metropolitan area and one of the main features of those are that the carers that are working in those services are either aboriginal, if their catering for aboriginal families, or if they are of not English speaking background then the occasion for families from non-English speaking background. And there are those times the women have their children in child care for a short amount of time. That's an afternoon while I get to go back and have access to some sort of training or cultural activities. Grace was also mentioning about attitudes. Part of the pilot project is to understand what the community attitudes are but also for us to educate and broaden the attitude of the community to what child care is all about and what it can actually do for the community. Besides some misinformation changing hopefully from misinformation to community education. We have some problems with regulations in that we work at providing a child care service that is safe and secure and is a quality child care service. So there is some flexibility there in those safety and quality guidelines such as perhaps if it were set up in a venue that would not quite, wouldn't normally meet licensing requirements we may have more staff on hand to make up for that inadequacy. The question of tax exemptions, etc.. Goes back to the question of who's financing it and that sort of thing and so its not necessarily universally relevant. Several what I wanted to draw out of that model is a principal of what we feel is being successful. The child care office is the community confrontation and the locally based and staffed from such a child care. Affordability, I don't actually think that about that. But this particular pilot project is fully funded which means the families only pay a small amount of money. Then they are eligible for the normal government assistance because they are only paying that small amount to begin with. So when the pilot finishes it may then become something that needs to be looked at for other communities. We will not pay full fee and then claim the assistance back from the government or whether they, we try and convince the government they should be fully funding child care services in the first pl ace. Flexibility in the regulations. None of us want to be compromising quality or safety but there are some ways in which those things can be regulations can be made flexible and still be able to deliver a quality service. .... appropriate whatever the parents feel happy with leaving their children with they maybe one of the farming women, they may be original carers for the program. So originals, etcetera. On local deliver which, that helps building up that feeling of trust also the community. Ownership and ..... helps those local, the economy at those local regions.

So now I'd like to just to show you a few slides so you can get a bit of an idea of what these places and venues are like. Uh Hang on. Its hard to do all this and holding them up front at the same time. I think you can just focus that a little bit better. That's actually worse isn't it. That's better. Now this is one of the local venues that we ended up not actually using. As you can see its fairly.. Whoops lets go back. As you can see it's fairly rough around the edges and this is one of the places where it was suggested we might be hot using it as a venue and holding child care here and it ended up not being quite up to scratch. So those .... slides are what I would call searching for a venue. This is another hall that was eventually used. It was very dirty and we had to ... to clean it out and also adapt it somewhat but as you can see its got some child safety and it's also well insulated and quite useful for child care. This is another of the doors which you'll see was actually adapted for use. What they've done here is they've put this part of the fence around the outside so the children have some outside area to play. Whoops. That one is upside down. What they are planning for building are the change tables and there's other equipment for the younger babies etcetera. What I have here are the toilet facilities at this particular venue. The carers have to take the children out of the way to the toilet. And of course toilets are one of the problems with regulations that we have. And a lot of these places don't have adequate toilets, unfortunately. .......... they're still inspecting that place. That's another view of that portable fence and that's also the van that carries tailer around behind it. As I said, I've been in one corner of that hall with books so the kids can sit down. Whoops! This is rather sensitive this uh slide projector. This is the set up for the children to sleep. This is actually the place where it is safe ... goes out from each toilet so from the lunch room they come in here and they get their lunch, sit down and then head back out. We feel that non-English speaking women in our local town who get together and meet once a week to the lady who has the I .... and those other people. The children ... women get together and meet each other and also have access to some training. I've just got some shots of the kids. And that's the last one. Of course that's when it comes down to it that's what its all about really it's for the children but, if its good for the children it's good for the families and vice versa. Thank You.

MEDIATOR: Does anyone have any questions they'd like to ask?

Inaudible...

SPEAKER: I think at the moment it's only during the day, yes.

Inaudible

SPEAKER: I guess in that respect, no. At the moment I don't think we've had any requests to actually go out and aid them at the moment.

Inaudible