SPEAKER: Um, what the name of this conference, this breakout session, as you know, is Access to Capital for Agriculture. Is every one a farmer here? Okay. Yes?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

SPEAKER: Okay.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

SPEAKER: Okay, do you, do you want to go on down there?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

SPEAKER: The Calvert Room. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Donte.

Anyway, as women who are farmers from the United States as well as other places, I'm sure you already have plenty of stories to tell about access to capital, I would assume. At USDA, can everybody see me okay? If I sit down, is that all right? Tell me if it isn't. At USDA we've been doing quite a bit here in the United States trying to bring down some barriers for women when it comes to access to capital. Um, one of the main barriers, um, happens to be that most lending institutions aren't used to dealing with women, in doing, um, in setting up business loans and not always do women consider themselves, that are going out to make loans, to be business women, which is what we are when we go looking for access capital for agriculture. One thing I would like to do is find out how many of you have had a problem with that recently. So we can -- Yes. Would you like to tell us about it? Come on up. That's what this conference is all about, and I think that's a good way to start this discussion.

PARTICIPANT: I'm Mary Golding for Catherine, the northern territory of Australia. My husband and I have had a passion to own our own farm. And we've been trying to that for about 18 years. We purchased a virgin block of land 5 years ago, after a lot of hard work for the people. And wrote a business plan with a vision, and it's been really tough. Through no fault of our own, I guess the weather and all sorts of other things. And our children later, not all that were planned, I wasn't back out in the workforce, so we didn't have enough farm income. Things didn't go as -- we didn't make as much capital. We didn't stick to our business plan. ................. So last year, the bank and its great wisdom told us that we had to sell. Fortunately, I've been involved in some national meetings and I've met a wonderful royal counselor down in Kindle last year and she said stick with it. And I went back with my husband and we went to the bank. And we sat down and talked. And I said, let's just try and get to the next mango season. That's what we grow, mangoes. And we negotiated and I can tell you now, we've got the for sale sign off the farm. But, you know, what my question is, is I've just been to a workshop where they were quoting that the average age of the farmer is 62 years old. Sixty-two years of age. If we're looking at the next generation, and if you're not that fortunate that you are going to inherit a farm and you happen to be the son of a farmer, how are we going to address the problem of the next generation? In fact, if we want farming families to be the people that are caring for the land instead of big corporations taking over all of the land, people that may have that burning desire to own a farm, how do we finance them into farming in the next generation.

SPEAKER: Just from my own experience, I recently was in France in this past February. And I was with Under Secretary Long Thompson, and we were doing round tables of meetings, getting ready for this particular meeting. And one of the most innovative things I've heard of, and actually this is sponsored by the government of France. They've made a commitment to fill positions and make guaranteed loans to young farmers. And this was a deal actually brokered by a woman who is head of their farmers union in France. And we all don't have governments that are going to guarantee the first thousand people that are, you know, under say age 30 that apply for a loan. And, getting a loan, you know we don't all have governments that can make that sort of commitment to us. But one thing that we can do, of course as women farmers, and family farmers, is make a real effort to do some mentoring. You don't always have to pass your land on to your children. And your children may not have farming in their blood the way you do, but you need to make sure that you're going to, you know perhaps sell your land or work out some type of cooperative program so that your land stays farming. And I think that's a responsibility we have to take upon ourselves, I mean, it's my personal opinion. I might be different somewhat on that.

PARTICIPANT: I'm from Pennsylvania, and our State Department of Agriculture has a program called Farmer Link. And they make an effort to hook up younger generation people who are interested in farming with those who are 62, probably, or older, maybe not even that old; but who are looking to get out of farming at some point. And like she said, maybe their children are not interested in it. So that's a state sponsored program. Also, our state has recently started a New Generation Farm Loan Program through the Department of Agriculture and this is also to help younger people who are interested in to get the capital that they may need through a local type of a government agency, like your, maybe a local planning commission, will be the facilitators on a local level. Also, she may be aware of, I'm sure she is, the Farm Service Agency's, the Farm Loan Programs, there are beginning farmer loan programs that are there, but there again, you have to have farmers who have a certain number of years of experience to qualify for the loans, but at least in my state of Pennsylvania, those are a couple of things that I am aware of.

SPEAKER: Thank you.

PARTICIPANT: I'm also from the state of Pennsylvania, and the Farm Link Program is a fine idea. It's had some problems with it getting started well. I have a farm that I've farmed with my husband for 12 years and then he died. And, so I have operated the farm on my own for the last 4 years. Eventually, not right away, because I'm very young yet, I want to pass this farm on. I don't have any children, so a couple of years ago I brought in, as a junior partner, a young man then 28, now 30 years old. He has a wife and a child. And the idea is at some point we will figure out some way to gradually transfer the assets of this farm to him. So at the point when I am ready to quit farming, I will have whatever I need to survive on for the rest of my life and he will have the farm. The problem is, and we know about the beginner farm loans, and we know about some of the loan guarantees and what not that the government provides. The problem is that the farm does not cash flow enough for us to take on, for him to take on the debt. And that's a problem that I'm not sure how to describe that one.

SPEAKER: You know, maybe to get back. I think you beautifully brought us right back onto topic here. How do we educate financial institutions about lending to women to any farmer, and make them understand, I mean, it used to be we had lots of banks that, here in the United States and I'm sure in other countries as well, that were farmers banks. And they understood the cash flow and they understood, you know you have a lot of money come in at one time and then there are other times that are slow and that you depend -- here in the United States 72% of all farms depend on off-farm income. Most of the time that's a woman, um, exclusively who's working off-farm, you know during the day, bringing home a steady paycheck, as well as taking care of the farm at home when she comes home in the evening along with everything else. So this is particularly important problem for women. Has anyone had an success stories, perhaps in their country or here in the United States, in dealing with financial institutions. In educating them about, you know, we as women have come a long way with getting our, getting more loans, getting access to financial institutions, um, programs like Intermediary Re-Lending Programs where the government may sponsor a large loan, perhaps a non-profit or to a local community bank, that, in particular they want to lend to women. You know, does anyone have any ideas on how we can get them lending, particularly to farm women?

PARTICIPANT: Speaks in foreign language, no translator.

PARTICIPANT: Speaks in foreign language, no translator.

SPEAKER: Um, we have with us, oh. One second. Was it to them? Ladies, could you come back up, I think we're going to have some more questions for you, if you don't mind staying with us. I know we're imposing on you terribly. Thank you. We have Judy Conalas with us, she's the Deputy State Director for Texas for World Development. Judy works with access to capital each and every day in her position there. She works in particular with an amazing program here in the United States that President Clinton and Vice President Gore have been very supportive of. And that is the Enterprise, um, Empowerment Zone and Enterprise Community Project. We happen to have an Empowerment Zone in Texas and they are doing some fabulous things. And I'd like Judy, after we do our question here, to talk with you about how they're moving this community that is one of the poorest communities in the United States. From that status to empowering them, helping them get the access to the credit they need, not only for agriculture, but also for World Development Infrastructure and bringing businesses into the community. So, we'd, I'd like to take this question and then I'd like to turn over to Judy for a few minutes. Question?

PARTICIPANT: Carrying on from you two ladies. I'm sponsored in part, constantly meet by the Regional Economics Board from where I come from in New South Wales, Australia. And what you talked about is of great interest to me, because I'm interested in diversifying and getting into American industries. But getting funding for those sorts of things is really tricky because the infrastructures aren't there, they don't understand the industry, the think it's high risk. Um, if you're financed by a financial organization you pay not just interest rates buy big margins on top. And they have the control and interest in the partnership. They say sell your stock, sell your land. You have to sell. I'm wondering how we can get those bodies, yes, bring it to an intermediary group, and let them decide on micro circumstances, the viability of your proposals. Let's have them have more of a risk partnership. If it's a cooperative or a company, let them be shareholders. And create independence. Get us on our feet, and then after a period of time they withdraw and their shares go to the company or to be sold on the open market. Can that happen?

SPEAKER: That's a good question. Perhaps part of what we need to do is make sure that we're educating, um, the lenders about -- please stay -- about what good credit risks women are and then maybe more people would be willing to buy in. Here in the United States, with, um, you know we're always running statistics on something, I guess we all do that. But, I heard a very interesting one recently from the Micro Enterprise Institute. They're going to be here later this week talking about Micro Enterprise Opportunity. There default rates on loans for women are below 3%. And that's pretty amazing when you look at the general population. They're, and the money that they have in their pools all throughout the United States, is growing larger and larger because these banks are figuring out what good credit risks women are, and that they're willing to put that money back in when they think I could repay my loan and then my money comes back in and helps yet another woman. It's pretty amazing. So maybe we need to do some more education. Let folks know what good credit risks women are.

Judy, would you like to tell us about the Empowerment Zone?

JUDY: Leighanne, I'd be happy to pitch it for you. I came in certainly very interested in the topic and I'm glad to also see my colleague here, Linda Page, who's the State Director from Ohio, who may also be called up to duty here and assist me in this discussion. And I apologize, I just, I just came in and I'm not quite sure, did you all already discuss the intermediary re-lending program?

SPEAKER: Inaudible.

JUDY: Okay. I will discuss it from my perspective. Speaker begins speaking in Spanish.

Okay. So first we're going to talk in English and we'll -- okay -- no problem -- okay.

We'll first of all I'll discuss the intermediary re-lending program of which, and I'm glad, like I said I'm glad to see my colleague from Ohio here, but I'm the Deputy State Director in Texas. The IRP program that we have been discussing is under our rural business services program portfolio. And basically, it is funds that USDA provides to a non-profit organization or a local government entity that basically serves to then re-lend out a small quantity to start up organizations, start up businesses or to emerging or I should say growing businesses. So far so good. And how I've seen it in operation, specifically, has been re-granted or we lent a little over a million dollars to a non-profit organization based in south Texas. And if you all are familiar with that, it's basically a low, very low income area, bilingual, Spanish speakers, English speakers. And what the non-profit organization did was then ultimately work very closely, this is this is the part that I see that's very different, they work very closely with that business person to, number one, there was one example in which a gentleman was living in a very small town, he had not been paid his taxes because he quite frankly had, he had been working as a small business person, but he didn't really know the system. And please, please do not be surprised, because that's, that still is very common. And so they were basically were caught up in an area in which people were pretty much used to being on public assistance. And that was the only way that people really knew. And so the non-profit organization worked with that person, turns out he was making enough so that ultimately he was able to pay his taxes and then start setting aside money. He was, this is Texas, so he was building barbecue pits. And, he's a welder, so that bells and basically that's where you cook the meat. And so he was ultimately, got that business started and is now little by little on his own. I mean, I'm giving you guys an example because that one really stuck in my mind as a as a great success story because it teaches people how to help themselves. And that's the whole issue with the IRP program, is working with the non-profits so that they can then, on behalf of USDA, very methodically help a person figure out how they can put together their own financial statements, their business plan, and so forth. Again, I'm giving a situation in which you need to have someone there locally. But, I believe there's enough talent out there that if we can partner with them, it's doable.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: In this particular instance, it was an organization that had, has been in existence probably about 15 20 years. And this non-profit is based in a small town, rural area, and it is also, working in several counties. So they've got a pretty good territory.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: This particular group was very, was comfortable in financial areas in the sense that they're not necessarily just social service providers, but they actually are also building housing. And as you well know, when it comes to housing, you, you need to be able, a don't care if you're a non-profit or not, you need to be able to turn around and be able to make sure that that that project is incoming generating, because if not it's going to default. And we're not good landlords, we prefer that they stay in the hands of the non-profits and working with the community. So it was a non-profit that had that kind of expertise. They basically got a staff person that they hired to then do this counseling. So you've got to, you obviously you need to seek out this expertise if it's not already there in-house. But, it was doable. Because this is a small town of about 6,000 people. Yes, ma'am.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: It works both ways. In this particular instance, my understanding is that they did make the application to us. But we, throughout our Outreach activities, are always seeking out non-profits in which we can partner. And I'm in fact, that's why I was out there, was re-, visiting with someone who had a lot of contacts in Texas that I'm still, you know, trying to pull-in non-profits to be basically a part of our network.

JUDY: Okay. Linda, did you want to say anything on this program, in particular?

Okay. The other thing that I'm going to talk about is the presidential initiative called the Empowerment Zone Enterprise Community Initiative. It was a program that was authorized by the Congress in 1994. It's a Presidential Initiative, President Clinton, Vice President Al Gore are very much supporters and initiators behind this initiative. It's an initiative in which the Department of Housing and Urban Development works with the urban areas and USDA rural development works with the rural areas. And so, I will speak to my experience as far as the rural areas. Specifically, programs voluntarily, I'm sorry, communities voluntarily submit an application for this program here in the United States, meaning that the communities may have come together as a group. We're very much promoting the idea of regional cooperation. Work in planning, and what they had to do was develop a strategic plan in which they identified what are the needs of the community. This is very different than business as usual because in the past many times you may have had a Chamber of Commerce who presents themselves as speaking on behalf of a community, that's not enough. And in developing the strategic plan, it's got to be inclusive. Certainly, the business component is very important, but you also need educators, you need churches, you need community based organizations, you need youth to be a part of this whole effort. And that's what was occurring around this country and communities, be they through counties that are grouped together, or small cities, came together, put an application together. Again this is also very unique because too often, I think you can appreciate this, if you're coming from a small town, you may be aware of your neighboring county, and a lot of time you end up competing against each other. Or at least you think you do. What this did was, the change here was, is that the communities came together and as neighbors and said we're in this together. Now, I realize I'm cutting to the chase. I'm making this, I'm putting this forward and I know that it's not simple. And communities had to agree among themselves how to submit this application, but they did it. And I had experience in it because of the fact that one of the three rural zones that were designated, was one was designated in Texas. Particularly in south Texas and the Rio Grande Valley, which is, as I was describing is a low, very much low income area, had been agriculture based, or agriculture dependent, and the community, while agriculture is very important, were looking to diversify. And so what they did was they came together as 4 different counties and through the leadership of the strategic planning process, developed a plan in which they determined jobs, they determined education, business development, small business development specifically, housing, health, health access in rural areas, very difficult. They identified what there needs were and put together that plan they were designated as an Empowerment Zone. The result has been while this particular program, here in the United States, is a designation of 10 years and 40 million dollars, what they have found is that they have been able to leverage now 90 million additional funds to the Empowerment Zone at this point. Because all of the attention, the unity that came about from the community. I mean that's very powerful. What have been the results? Obviously, more jobs created. Businesses that have been started up. There's been additional training. I was interested in the questions regarding the Micro Lending Program because they, too, have now started a Micro Lending Program in which women who were seamstresses, came together in a kind of a cooperative effort, and have now received these funds so that they can then sell their products as a group. Make them, they came together in selling their products and now are able to, you know, obviously work together in their own business. So its very very much self-sufficient oriented with the assistance of the federal government and certainly technical assistance from USDA Rural Development. It's been a fascinating thing to watch. Another one of the efforts that I thought was very fascinating was a health technical training program in which too often health personnel were being solicited from outside of the state, because they didn't have people there locally trained. Well, why not provide job training there in the local area for the people who are already there. And that's what they've been doing, and it's called Project Viva, viva meaning life in Spanish. And that project now has been very successful and now graduating students with, in partnership again, with local businesses so that they can then move into jobs that are produced locally. So that's a basic example of the, I think a very successful program. We're seeing it grow. It's we're seeing it also go through its pulls and it's tugs from, again, local, sometimes like individuals who think we've got federal funds and we're going to do it my way. Well, again, we go back and say this is this is being done differently, and it's through committee, it's through sub-zone, local groups saying these are what we have determined to be the priorities and we make these recommendations. Very done, business being done very differently, and again, it takes strong leadership. Fortunately, a non-profit organization was developed so that you would have basically someone who is neutral, who wasn't owned by a county judge, who wasn't owned by a mayor. So they came together in formation and they basically take their marching orders from the board, which was devised from the community members. Fascinating program. I'd love to, um, I can talk more and more about it, but if there's any questions or if you want to speak to me separately, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. Yes, ma'am.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: We've got it within USDA, if you've got a business card or if you want to give me an address, we can get that information to you.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: The, my counter-part, I don't know where you're from, but, okay -- well, Ellen Huntoon who is the State Director for USDA and Rural Development in Iowa. You can get that information from her office. And if she doesn't have it, she knows where to get it.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: I think there may be, I focus on the Empower Zone because that's what I, the experience that I have in Texas, but we also have them called Enterprise Communities, which are the same concept. They receive less money, but they also develop their strategic plan. I'm not sure there's one in Iowa. I'm assuming, there was applicants around the country, and so you had different levels of basically of communities that got funded. I'm not quite sure if Iowa has one, but she would know, she would know.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: The difference -- the question was, our colleague here had heard of the Enterprise Zones, which is a, it's an actually a different program. There are some similarities. Enterprise Zones, in my understanding, have been, basically designated by the state. And they're very much oriented towards a specific industrial region that may be in a city in which there may be tax abatements or tax incentives directed solely to that area. But that would be a state program, how I've seen it in my experience, usually, and it's -- what we're offering in regards to the Empowerment Zone is basically you have that type of designation, but it's much broader. Because as I was mentioning you had the regional aspect to it, as well as the fact that funds from the federal government are generated to that area. So that is the difference.

Any other -- Yes, ma'am?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: No. I mention counties because a lot of times, you know, counties, as far as, oh, the question was, sorry -- She was asking if the Empowerment Zone designation was solely for counties. And my response is that it needs to be a public entity that is basically, that's putting the application together. That signs off to the application. But it's not solely for a county. You could -- what happens is that you'll end up having a community within a county, you need a local group pulling this together. And they, they have to determine, you know, there's certain, as far as rural development you've got an area in which you can't go beyond, I think it's a 1,000 square miles. Did you have another question?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: I'm sorry?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: The question was, basically, how can a Native American Tribe apply for this. Right?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: Um, she's asking specifically about a group of women in a tribe wanting to start a business? Okay. What I'm referring to in Empowerment Zone, you certainly Native Americans, in fact, this time, this round, we're in what we call the second round of this process, um, Native American Tribes are specifically eligible. Now in the instance that you're describing, it would be, this is obviously very competitive, so it would be best if you would pull the tribe in as a whole to make this type of application. And an even stronger application would mean if you were a partner in with, maybe a local town that's in your area, or with the county. The best way to make this more competitive is through this more regional effort. There are other programs, though, that would relate to what you're saying regarding the women trying to set up a business. And that goes back to what I was saying in regard to the Intermediary Re-Lending Program, in which, say your organization or non-profit in that area may want to apply for, and then you could benefit from it.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: Her question is, is the funds that I was referring to regarding Micro Lending, if it was, as far as USDA, is for United States. I don't know if there's someone else here that, as far as USDA, that is familiar with international lending, but -- finished answer in Spanish.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: Well, the question is, um, she'd heard about the mention of Outreach in regards to USDA. How -- in my world, as far as rural development, when I refer to Outreach, it's basically our staff working with, making the program known to local community members. Which, my understanding is, it's somewhat different than business as usual for the Department. And I think what we're doing we're growing, we're understanding what the needs are out there and I think that's an improved effort to get the word out about what we're about. And, so I say that Outreach in just in a general way. You had specifics in regards to farm programs, and if we can't answered the question here, then we can refer to someone regarding the farm service agency.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: Absolutely. The question is how can you basically learn about USDA programs here in the United States so that you could use them as perhaps models to transfer to your, for the countries that are represented here today. And, yes, there is a USDA web site that is very good. Although I don't know that address on the top of my head. But we can get --

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: usda.gov, thank you. And right there, it's got all the information. Yes, ma'am.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: The loan size, it depends on what the program is. Um, oh, the question is what is the loan size for the USDA programs. It depends on what the program is. As I was referring to the Micro Lending Programs that are with the IRP, the examples that I've seen have been 10, 15, $20,000, but they could go, I imagine they could go even higher.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: Oh, 10 or 15 or $20,000, again, that was the example that I saw. But when it comes to the business and industry program, which is a much bigger program, the IRP program would go up to a million dollars.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: No, no. This would be for the non-profit organization.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: For a non-profit organization to work in that local community.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: What is the criteria for selecting a IRP? That's why I'm glad I have my colleague up here. She clarifies that the main criteria is, um, number one it's a competitive application that is funded from Washington, D.C., as in our National Office. So we work with the communities that are locally to assist them with putting these applications together. And I'm saying that is we, because I'm obviously with USDA, but I'm at the state level for USDA. And so we're obviously closer to the organizations that put in the applications.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: Right.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: I received clarification on this in regards to the competitive nature of it is basically based on what the need is in the area. What is the unemployment rate? What are the -- what is the need as far as small businesses. I mean, in the sense of doing some type of a survey, a calculation, interviewing businesses in the area. What are your needs? Interviewing people who you work with, for example, there may be other organizations that have had contact with people who want to start a business that need that extra, they need that assistance. What is that assistance based on? You know, so you do a survey of that local area. And then also you may determine that a more competitive application may include more counties, a bigger region that, you know, 6, 7, 8 counties covered under the application. And then basically your area that you're going to be making the loans to.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: The question pertained to the size of the farmer, and on this program that I'm referring to, it's really pertaining to, it's not on the production side, as far as agriculture. It would be more the product. The business development as it relates to that product that's being produced. Yes, ma'am?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: The question pertained to loans to farmers and the, what, as far as responding to that, again, I'd be happy to get information to you in writing that would be more specific to the farm side. But, my understanding is that there are some loans for, what they call beginning farmers. So, I'd be happy to get that information for you. Yes, ma'am?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

SPEAKER: I'm no expert in this. I'm a member of the Pennsylvania State Farm Service Agency Board. But there is a farm credit area within Farm Service Agency that makes loans to farmers, um, based on certain criteria, and they have loans for, as I mentioned before beginning farmers for what they term as socially disadvantaged, operating loans, guaranteed loans, also where they try to steer the borrower toward the traditional guarantee type loans. But that's a program that's operated through Farm Service Agency, which is a part of USDA. And those are done on a statewide basis, depending on what kind of a budget they have from the National program.

JUDY: Thank you. Yes, ma'am?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: The question is, what does IRP stand for? I fall into that government speak. Intermediary Re-Lending Program. And it falls under the Rural Business Services section of USDA Rural Development. Any other questions or comments? Linda?

LINDA: Maybe I can add a comment to you that you were interested in relation to how you approach commercial banks, how that relates to the public sector type of lending. I've heard a general comment today about how do we put our proposals together so that we can better impress the lenders. I come from a lending background, yes, I'm currently with USDA, but prior to this venture I was a bank president in Ohio, and I've also been a bank regulator. So I've had both aspects of banking from a private and public sector side. I'd like to share with you today, if I could, perhaps some points that you've all been raising, and that is: Number one, how do we really convince mainly the private sector side to promote our businesses and what do we need to do with that. And the second thing is, many of the experiences that we've had in the United States over the years, I believe can be related to some of your other countries. The first aspect of that is we must be prepared. As a public or private sector lender, I need to know whether you're male or female, that you can put together a business plan. That you can cash flow your business. Those are very basic premises that I need to see, whether I'm loaning through USDA, through FSA, government lending program, or whether I'm from a commercial bank environment. I can't afford to write off that loan is the bottom line as a banker. I need to know that you're able to operate your business, and you need to present a business plan to me to do that. Generally, the aspect of most banks today are at least willing and able to sit down and try to do that. In the United States, and I'm going to be very candid with you, because I came from the banking environment, I can clearly say that many banks would not be loaning to women today if it were not for the community reinvestment act and if it were not for the civil rights act. I hate to say that, but as a female I understand that because I was a part of that process as well and I've also borne the stigma of having been discriminated against as a borrower from time to time. So I've sat on both sides of that train, if you will. But today, I can assure you that you have every reason to expect and to believe that the commercial banking environment will work with you, but you must go into the table, you must present yourself in such a way, as I said the basic business plan, the cash flow statements, and the ability to run the farm operation. In the United States we have a large degree of agricultural banks in the United States. Some still have to be promoted along and pushed along in the process, but I can assure you that there are majority of commercial banks in the United States that are more than happy to try to promote the entrepreneurial development of women in agriculture.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

LINDA: Excuse me?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

LINDA: Well now, Australia I can't unfortunately speak about. But I can share this with you. And that is unfortunately in many of your countries there is still the political influence as we all unfortunately know, that continuous to force the submissiveness basically between the genders in relation to borrowing. I was in another work group today, and the lady spoke about how in her country land and everything is still automatically succession planning, passed along to the male heirs. That happened here in the United States for a number of generations, too, but fortunately, that has changed. And I believe that you would all agree with me that that's still is a major influence on the process. But I'm hopeful by the mere fact that you're with us this week, it says to me that you and your country are going to be able to work together going forward and the exposures that you reach from us this week are going to be able to take back some of these opportunities. I will say this, that even though you are in countries perhaps, whatever continent you're on, there are still some features for you. The US Department of Agriculture and other private sector people participate with VOCA, which is an overseas aide area that goes into countries, in fact I was in Belarus myself three years ago, speaking about banking and credit and access. And it deals with countries that have a need and an interest of bringing people in to try to do exactly what it is that you're speaking about. And that is to provide development, business encouragement. There are accounting firms that go to Europe, go to Central America, and develop opportunities that when you get back to your country, I would persuade you perhaps to do some investigation with that, that aspect of it. The US Department of Agriculture is very active in foreign countries. And, again, accessing that, I apologize, I can't tell you on each country how that could be accessed, but I will tell you that it is a ready available resource to you. The best thing that you could do, ladies, I believe are two things. Number one, the fact that you're here and that you're taking a very strong leadership role, I applaud because it's only been a few years that many of you would not have been able to make this trip. I think that in itself says that you can take back what you are exposing to here. And get access to some of those resources. The second thing is, we are accessible by e-mail, by written form, and I think that as you gain those contacts this week, and even others, we would be more than happy, in any way that we possibly can, to try to work with you either through your associations there, through yourselves, in trying to gain access to various credit. But your best source, even in light of the culture or the political affiliations that you have in your country, says to me that you are a very strong component of those changes. And that your professionalism in putting together your proposals for your individual agricultural needs, is where it basically has to start. And I would say, looking around this room, that you have the age bracket to basically be around for some time to be able to do that. And I would suggest that's probably your largest source of ability to make some of these needs that you have happen. Because that, unfortunately, is the same way that most of us started here, even in the United States, to gain access and to ensure that we had the availability of credit. And even as I stand here, I will say to you that we still have to fight for those things many times because we still have some markets that are not maybe as open. But, we did some things, as a result of women like yourselves, and the men, very honestly, at standing up and saying it is time for change. Yes, Ma'am.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

LINDA: Let me restate that for the transcribers. This lady, I believe is right on target. She said that it's not about gender, it's about having a very solid relationship with your lenders. And I agree with you. It's not so much about gender in many cases, as it is establishing a relationship, establishing your credibility, and establishing a very viable business plan that they see you as professionals. And I couldn't have put it better. Thank you. Yes, ma'am?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

LINDA: The lady from Canada dresses the notion of farm safety and how when people run into difficult times, either through a safety issue or some other unfortunate situation, they can be withdrawn, I think that was your word?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

LINDA: Could be financial or could be physical, right? Very good question. I think, again, you're right on target. And that is that, usually in a stressful time, that's the time, I don't care whether you're in farming whether you're in agriculture, whether you're in any type of business, the result is the same. You must, absolutely must maintain contact with your lenders. I don't whether it's the federal government whether it's the private sector, the more continuity and relationship that you have established with your lending institution the better opportunity you have to explain your situation. That is not the time to back off. That is not the time to sit back and say nothing. You should always maintain a working relationship, a knowledgeable arrangement with your lenders. And that stands for USDA the same as it does for a commercial bank. Generally, a lender will work with you if they know your circumstances. Again, whether it's agriculture of something else, they will work with you because they understand, appreciate the problems. Keep them advised. Bring them out to your farm operations. Discuss with them what your needs are. Discuss with them your planning operations. Discuss with them when there has been a tragedy or an accident of some sort, or even an economic problem. I only have to remind us all of the flooding and the different things that we've had here in the United States the last few years. But the key is communication, ladies, ensure that you establish that rapport and ensure that you maintain it. Don't just go out to your lender every year or every six months or something and say wave as you go in the door. Get to know them and have them out to your facility. What else can we answer or try. Not like my friend, unfortunately, I only speak English and I botch that up on occasion. So -- Yes, ma'am

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

LINDA: They are placed -- the lady from Canada again addresses that it's not just a matter of numbers. It's a matter of philosophy. It's a matter of a business plan, of a mission statement, understanding what you are. There are basically 5 census of credit. But the three most important are character, collateral and capacity. And nothing can frankly replace the character for borrowing. The collateral only comes into being when you cannot afford to pay, and we have to have some means to liquidate our debt. But the real key is, can and will that person pay. Is there integrity, the type that will pay. And I've seen it in the private sector and I've certainly seen it in the public sector. And you give me a person anytime with good strong integrity and good strong character, and I know that person will repay his or her debt. And that is not a gender situation. We must understand as lenders that that person has the commitment and the drive, but also the planning process and the mission in this to ensure that amount of success. And that drive generally will carry on when some of the other situations, such as collateral, may not be as strong. Yes, ma'am?

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

LINDA: Um, you can always -- The question is, is relating to other sources of credits, such as insurance companies. There are multiple sources of borrowing; commercial banks, certainly. You can borrow from insurance companies on your own polices, generally insurance companies, at least it's my experience, will not loan individually because of the nature of the business they're in. But they will loan in pocket. There is the coop bank in the United States, for instance. The Farm Credit System that many of you heard Marsha Martin speak about today. The United States has many sources of credit, certainly up to and outside of the agricultural market. Certainly, the federal government is the largest source of credit into that. Unfortunately, on an international basis, you have many sources of credit that are available, especially in European countries where you are very aggriant. But, again, it's very limited because of some times precarious nature of the government and the operation. Because they will borrow then from other countries, of course, and that money that is turned back into an agricultural allotment area. There are many sources of agricultural credit in the United States. Depending on what your needs are and what your sources of size of borrowing, and that's just a few that would come to my mind. Excellent question. Yes, ma'am. I knew your were going to say something.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

LINDA: My name is Linda Paige.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.

JUDY: My name is Judy Canales, C-A-N-A-L-E-S.

PARTICIPANT: Inaudible.